WHM: Relic+1 vs AF2

[Hiro_Protagonist]

Magic Dmg DOES NOT increase healing magic potency. (and even if it does the +1 to relic is only 3 points)

Most people are in agreement that magic damage does affect healing done to a target, so I think the burden of proof is on you. What are your sources? Where is your data? Also, you can't say 3 points is meaningless unless we can establish a conversion. For all you know 1 pt of damage is equal to 10 mnd.

[Caduceus]

Proof is easy it's simple addition. As a dusk elezen at 50 i have a base of 244 mnd. I speced solely into mnd for an additional 30 then when i add my gear the mnd comes out to the exact number of the bonus healing. 244(base)+30(attribute points)+157(stats on current gear) = 431 (which wouldn't you know it is the exact number of my healing magic potency! Hope this helps you all... grab a calculator and do the math yourselves instead of just reading it on the internet and believing it's truth.

(i have since changed my robe to vanya so if you check it it shows at 435 it's the vanya update)

[Kayokane]

Magic Damage doesn't increase Heal Magic Potency stat, but it does have an effect on the formula for healing spells...

[Caduceus]

Most people are in agreement that magic damage does affect healing done to a target, so I think the burden of proof is on you. What are your sources? Where is your data? Also, you can't say 3 points is meaningless unless we can establish a conversion. For all you know 1 pt of damage is equal to 10 mnd.

my sources are the game itself as i don't research the internet data i go by actual in game... if you look on lodestone you can search the character themselves. the data again... in the game and off lodestone not a third party entity.

[Caduceus]

I'd like to know where these other people are coming up with their numbers/formulas. ESP since you can't have a thyrus and a thyrus +1 to truly "compare the numbers" and how exactly does the dmg exactly factor into the healing formula? unless you programmed the game you have no idea what the "formula" really is.

[Sleigh]

Proof is easy it's simple addition. As a dusk elezen at 50 i have a base of 244 mnd. I speced solely into mnd for an additional 30 then when i add my gear the mnd comes out to the exact number of the bonus healing. 244(base)+30(attribute points)+157(stats on current gear) = 431 (which wouldn't you know it is the exact number of my healing magic potency! Hope this helps you all... grab a calculator and do the math yourselves instead of just reading it on the internet and believing it's truth.

(i have since changed my robe to vanya so if you check it it shows at 435 it's the vanya update)

Healing magic potency is only one part of the calculations that go into healing. Weapon damage also counts.

Case in point:

As a BLM with relic+1 (69 WD), I heal around 380 consistently with Physick.
With the exact same equipment otherwise, I switch to a Bone Brand, a level 5 staff with 11 WD. My heals consistently heal for around 120 with Physick.

There is no Mind difference, as it is on neither weapon. There is a Determination difference, but not NEARLY enough to shift the numbers around so much, as I went from 286 Determination with relic+1 to 268 Determination with the Bone Brand. No matter how you slice it, WD has a HUGE impact on healing output.

[Caduceus]

Healing magic potency is only one part of the calculations that go into healing. Weapon damage also counts.

Case in point:

As a BLM with relic+1 (69 WD), I heal around 380 consistently with Physick.
With the exact same equipment otherwise, I switch to a Bone Brand, a level 5 staff with 11 WD. My heals consistently heal for around 120 with Physick.

There is no Mind difference, as it is on neither weapon. There is a Determination difference, but not NEARLY enough to shift the numbers around so much, as I went from 286 Determination with relic+1 to 268 Determination with the Bone Brand. No matter how you slice it, WD has a HUGE impact on healing output.

This being true can you say that 3 weapon dmg for the +1 to thyrus is a better upgrade than changing an ilvl 60 or ilvl 70 to an ilvl 90?... changed out my thyrus to my first weapon given and the drop was drastic as you stated. it is a loss of both all mnd and all determination. when i switch out to a weapon with less mnd less determination and 26 less weapon dmg the healing drops by 300. so that's (without accounting for mind and determination about 11 per point of dmg) however the mnd and determination that i lose on top of the 26 dmg is determination 15 and 18mnd. Like i originally said i think it depends on the part of the player; however, it is good to know that dmg does play a part. thanks for pointing this out. (further math from your numbers on healing with your black mage: Each point of weapon dmg is equal to 4.482758620689655 (again not counting your loss of determination) So that would be 12 added to each heal based on weapon dmg to upgrade thyrus to +1.

[Praqzis]

Weapon Damage has more of a significant impact on how much your healing spells heal than MND does. There is a complete detailed breakdown that reverse engineers the healing calculation in game on the B.L.I.T.Z.B.A.L.L. website: http://valk.dancing-mad.com/?page_id...alingmechanics. There is also a WHM Healing Returns calculator (and a general Heals calculator) that can be used to determine just how much impact a change will have.

I don't quite have full DL yet (pants and boots are Strategos and both rings are still L49 HQ rings; my lodestone profile though has the gear I'm currently Spirit-Binding for money). Even using my current SP-ing gear, my crit adjusted heal for Cure 1 (400 potency) is 868.49. With Thyrus+1, the +3 weapon damage increases my crit adjusted heal to 897.56 (900 Myth spent for an increase of ~0.032 points/Myth). If I upgrade from DL body to AF2 body/head, my crit adjusted heal goes to 893.37 (1320 Myth spent for an increase of ~0.019/Myth).

So from an upgrade efficiency stand-point, it is much more efficient for me to upgrade to Thyrus+1 before my AF2 body.

[Slark]

It's common knowledge that weapon damage is the single most beneficiary stat in the game in terms of increasing raw healing. The amount one weapon damage gives is extraordinary when compared to any other stat for us. Coil does not demand survivability from healers until turn 5. However, it does demand high HPS.

Thyrus +1 is generally considered better than Allagan turn 5 weapon. (Thyrus +1 is BiS)
Allagan chest is considered better than AF+1 body by pretty much anyone who has done any research on spell speed. (Allagan body is BiS)
OP also has access to turn 4 loot. (Access to Allagan body)

I personally would not, and do not buy myth items for my WHM if they are not best in slot (meaning the Allagan equivalent is better) until I have obtained all of my BiS myth pieces. Why? The answer is obvious: wasted mythology. AF+1 robe falls under the category of "not BiS", therefor in my opinion, do not buy it until you have all of your BiS mythology pieces, and AF+1 pants which drop off of turn 5.

The decision is an easy one. Go for Thyrus +1, don't even buy robe until you have all your BiS myth (unless you feel like replacing and wasting that mythology that could be better spent on other pieces of gear, or an alt class).
If you do end up going the AF+1 chest, which i strongly disadvise, be prepared to buy a Vanya's hat and socket it with full materia assuming you do not already have a good hat.

[Hiro_Protagonist]

Each point of weapon dmg is equal to 4.482758620689655 (again not counting your loss of determination) So that would be 12 added to each heal based on weapon dmg to upgrade thyrus to +1.

Check out Praqzis' link; they do a detailed analysis. Each point of MD does not add a constant amount of HP to the heal; it's a multiplier.