WHM Questions/Feedback from a Warrior

[Koltik]

I had a really long debate/discussion with a few good WHM I know the other night about the use of Stoneskin + Regen, and how effective it is for Warriors. The main point I was trying to iron out was whether or not it's more effective to keep Stoneskin and Regen up than it is to spam cures.

The reason this came up was because Warriors are starting to get 7.3k+ HP, which makes the amount absorbed by Stoneskin pretty substantial (1.3k). Also, Warriors can fill-in the gaps in damage taken between Stoneskin's with self heals.

The discussion ended with us agreeing that Cure + Cure2 are better for heals/sec, but I still think there is more to Stoneskin that many WHM don't take advantage of. I wanted to put this post out there to see what other WHM's think of stoneskin, and when is the best time to use it on a Warrior.

(Continued on 2nd post)

[Koltik]

To start, I will point out times that I see it being useful from my personal experience.

First for the obvious list:

• Before the start of any fight
• When you know a big hit is coming and you need to mitigate it (ex. Mountain on Titan)

Now for a less-obvious list, again based on my experience as a WAR:

• When your tank is topped off and you are waiting on him to take more damage before casting your next heal (Stoneskin here)
• Repeat above until tank takes more damage and requires actual heals
• Before a Knockback is coming (ex. Repel on Demon Wall) - it blocks the knockback component [NOTE: Scholars should be able to use group Succor and have the entire group block the knockback]

What other uses are there for Stoneskin? I feel like it's such an underused ability at the moment, and needs more exploration with Warriors.

EDIT: Here are a few more suggestions/uses people have made in this thread. Keep them coming!

Hi there.

I oft used Stoneskin as an alternative to Cure II. It generates a lot less enmity than a heal would, so if I do need to Medica, I'm a few Cure IIs behind on that enmity list for the same MP cost. And toward the Warrior, I'm not overwriting your self-healing abilities, so I get to save MP by not having to chain cure, regen, etc if I choose heavy duty healer mode.

But for offensive white mages who stance dance, it lets me stay in Cleric's Stance longer. Stoneskin lets me pull off the equivalent of Cure II without the extra time needed to come out of the stance, cast the spell, then re-enter the stance. And when I do come out, may opt for Divine Seal, Cure II, Regen, then go back in Cleric's Stance.

I use it just as OP describes. Start fight tank has SS then recast after about 1 or 2 seconds followed by regen "or time damage in my head" and try to keep it until I have to burst heal with cures. Saves mana and you build a LOT less hate

I've been trying this out a bit on a few guinea pig warriors, and it is working surprisingly well, so long as no damage occurs outside of the tank (which ideally shouldn't but it happens) then it falls a bit behind.

[HiirNoivl]

When I play WHM I try to maintain Stoneskin on all the party so long as major heals on the tank are not needed.

It's a necessary utility spell that can prevent wipes.

When I play Ifrit (Hard) as WHM, even if there is a missed stun or someone doesn't move under Ifrit in time, the consequences aren't that dire. And a Raise with a Stoneskin can prevent another Raise.

But it's not just Stoneskin that I see being underutilzed. Almost all DPS have utility spells and abilities that are not getting any game time.

SMN has Eye for an Eye
BLM has Apocastasis
MNK has Mantra
DRG has Feint

Please use these.

Thanks

[Rona]

I generally stoneskin if there's enough time and I'm not hurting on MP. If the MP is low and SoS is down, stoneskin is low on the priority list.

[PiedPiper]

It would only make sense to continually use stoneskin if the hp absorbed per mp spent ratio was better than the hp restored per mp spent ratio on cure II. The problem is, stone skin is much more expensive than cure 2, and it doesn't scale with gear. If a relic +1 whm in full left/right dl casts stone skin on you and a lvl 49 whm in af + whites casts it on you, it does the same. Cure 2, however, scales, so actually, 1.3k hp isnt' very much. Cure will crit for more than that (and non crits for almost that much for me and I'm not even full darklight yet) much less cure 2.

The only other time it makes sense to use it is when its either free (out of combat cast) or the tank needs more effective hp for the next big attack. Of course, you're a warrior, and thus made of paper, so every attack is a big attack :P

If stoneskin had no cast time and was off the gcd, then yes, it would make sense to use it pretty frequently on the wariror (assuming you could afford the mp).

I seem to recall that it's the same amount of MP to use Stone Skin as it is to use Cure II

Using edit to reply to you to save on daily post limit. I was unable to look up exact mp requirments, but when I said expensive I meant in terms of return. Even if the spells are equal cost mp wise, as you get to full dl / relic, cure two hits for much more than ss can and is thus "less expensive."

[Riko_113]

This is an interesting thread. Lately, while healing WAR I've been wondering myself about using Stoneskin regularly on them while in combat because of their high health and lack of defense.

For any other class in the game i pop it before fights but it's useless in fights, even on most PLD.

I would like to hear from other WHM with experience with this to see if Stoneskin can be more useful in combat(in regards to WAR at least).

[HiirNoivl]

I seem to recall that it's the same amount of MP to use Stone Skin as it is to use Cure II

It does cost the same, but as he said it cannot crit. This makes it less efficient over time.

As for what Pied said about scaling: Stoneskin just scales differently. Rather than it scaling off of your gear, it scales off of your tank's.

Bah of course. And with the Wrath V buff on WAR, Cure II really is better than Stoneskin.

[Fiosha_Maureiba]

Hi there.

I oft used Stoneskin as an alternative to Cure II. It generates a lot less enmity than a heal would, so if I do need to Medica, I'm a few Cure IIs behind on that enmity list for the same MP cost. And toward the Warrior, I'm not overwriting your self-healing abilities, so I get to save MP by not having to chain cure, regen, etc if I choose heavy duty healer mode.

But for offensive white mages who stance dance, it lets me stay in Cleric's Stance longer. Stoneskin lets me pull off the equivalent of Cure II without the extra time needed to come out of the stance, cast the spell, then re-enter the stance. And when I do come out, may opt for Divine Seal, Cure II, Regen, then go back in Cleric's Stance.

Where I'm at, it seems to boost damage by 50+%, but drops healing by a similar amount.

Unfortunately, this play style will not work if a Warrior sits on Wrath stacks and will opt to the Cure method instead of Stoneskin (unless they are topped off).

I didn't realize Stoneskin blocks the knockback, I feel like I'm usually flying back. Sometimes to psych myself out, I will use Fluid Aura on Demon Wall and pretend like I knocked him back instead.

[Koltik]

I seem to recall that it's the same amount of MP to use Stone Skin as it is to use Cure II

It does cost the same, but as he said it cannot crit. This makes it less efficient over time.

As for what Pied said about scaling: Stoneskin just scales differently. Rather than it scaling off of your gear, it scales off of your tank's.

[Koltik]

Unfortunately, this play style will not work if a Warrior sits on Wrath stacks and will opt to the Cure method instead of Stoneskin (unless they are topped off).

First off, great examples Fiosha; especially about being able to stay in Cleric stance without affecting Stoneskin. In that case, Stoneskin is always better.

As for a warrior sitting on Wrath stacks, that's something that will make using Stoneskin much less useful. The idea here is that the warrior would be utilizing self-heals in-between Stoneskins, as needed, and not just sit on unused stacks that are collecting dust.