As a 50 healer, I've NEVER had problems with tank threat

[Tolmos]

I keep seeing all these threads about healers whining and complaining that they can never find tanks who "understand aggro mechanics" or "can keep threat". That almost every dungeon they enter results in the tank losing threat and them getting killed.

The common denominator in all those situations is the healer.

Let me give you young healers a pro tip- Overhealing generates more threat than your tank can put out. If you heal someone who is already at 100%, you will DIE. Yes, that includes casting Medica or Succor on your party when only 2/4 or 3/8 members actually need it. That overhealing DOES register for the members who don't have any damage.

So remember, healers, that next time you want to yell at the tank for losing aggro to you... it's probably your fault.

Signed,
Level 50 Scholar.

[Keith_Dragoon]

I never have threat issues either but as a Scholar you should NEVER have any because your fairy pulls way more than you ever could if you play it correctly and not just stand far away from everyone with your fairy tethered to your back.

[MochaLatte]

says the scholar...

[Tolmos]

lol I figured there would be a cop out somewhere. =D "Oh it must be because you're scholar!"

Well, that's fine. I'll leave it up to a WHM to make this point to other WHMs. As long as I can get a little sense beat into scholars, that's good enough for me. First step this community needs to take to move towards having a better dungeoning environment is to understand the difference between roles in this game and others, where in this game threat management is not just the duty of the tank, but of every member in the party. The second folks realize that and stop giving good tanks crap because they themselves are bad players, the sooner the tanks will quit having a chip on their shoulder in the next runs and taking it out on everyone else.

[Rivienne]

Actually, I would like to point out that in my experience while it was somewhat my fault early on, the higher I go, the more likely it is someone else's fault(in regards to aggro management I mean.. I make a lot of other mistakes still...). Usually tank or DPS. But especially tank.

An example would be when I ran a dungeon yesterday, it was copperbell I think, the tank was a PLD, so greater than level 30. She would grab aggro on one enemy. Lose health rapidly, I would cast cure once. The rest of the mob would come straight for me. She then would come grab aggro on them and it would all be fine. This happened at every single mob.

But the point is, for some reason, some tanks don't always grab or maintain aggro on everything first. And when that happens they always go for the WHM. SCH have it easier as far as I can tell. They generate a lot less hate overall.

I am not blaming the tank per-se for being terrible. It is quite possible that she fate grinded to a high level, and is only now going back through the story and so hasn't learned proper group mechanics. But the point is, if the tank isn't doing the job correctly, or can't because of a DPS getting in the way, the healer almost always gets the aggro first.

That early in the game, it is more of a matter of ignorance on a good rotation.

I would agree in general, (and I am hoping to learn enough to pass on somethings in that situation) but I have had it happen in much higher dungeons as well. So I am not discounting what you are saying, but in general it isn't usually the healers fault in my experience. When I played DPS it was usually either my fault or the tanks fault as well. Rarely the healers. So while I get where you are coming from. I disagree with the idea that the healers who are complaining simply don't know their job. It could be they simply keep getting stuck with really bad groups. And having been with some myself, I can see where they are coming from.

[silverhope]

Only places I have aggro issues is if were two healing titan hm. Gotta use aggro dump to reset it about a min in. Than AK if a tank can't keep hate from Multi mob pulls. I never use regen on trash. Just in case the tank forgets to take it off.

On that note regen is stupid due to the way it builds hate. Never have I seen a healing dot gain hate per tick for so much.

Yes over healing can kill you but if you use the right heals and shroud and still pull hate its on the tank.

[Tolmos]

Snip

That early in the game, it is more of a matter of ignorance on a good rotation. My suggestion for you is this (it worked well for me) - next time you get a good tank, watch their rotation. Maybe even ask them what it is for multi-group mobs. When you get another new tank who doesn't have a good rotation, share what you learned with them. "Try doing fast blade -> savage blade -> flash twice -> etc etc". You'll help produce a good tank and probably save yourself a lot of headaches.

Early dungeons always suck for that reason. Folks are still learning.

On that note regen is stupid due to the way it builds hate. Never have I seen a healing dot gain hate per tick for so much.

Yes over healing can kill you but if you use the right heals and shroud and still pull hate its on the tank.

I definitely can agree with that, on both notes.

[BadRNG]

It's not really a cop out, scholars simply produce massively less threat. I understand your point, way too many people expect tanks to somehow have a huge aggro gap at the very beginning of a fight, but it's sort of like a ranged preaching to a melee about how they never get hit by short ranged aoe. It shouldn't of been an issue for you to begin with.

For WHM the basic lesson is usually just not to start a fight with regen and watch your medica's. Medica II at the very first tumult/jumps at Titan HM is a common mistake I've seen for instance.

[Alavastre]

I agree and disagree.

The truth is overhealing in this game is the worst possible thing you can do in the aggro/threat department. But this only applies to the times when you have adds. Most of the time, a good tank will keep aggro even in the event of over healing. With two WHM in your party, this can happen a lot. Regen is by far the worst possible spell you can use for over healing, yet, I can easily use such tactics on Ifrit for example.

I would say that we shouldn't give tanks a blanket, "you're really doing a good job, it's the healers fault".

Just my opinion. Most tanks seem to be pretty good at end game, once they know the fight.

[Wilksha]

You can usually tell if the problem is the healer or tanks fault. You can blame the tank when you get Add and they do not use their AoE hate building skills like flash. It can be put on the healers if they heal way too soon before the tanks are able to use these skills. It's sometimes just that either the tank or the healer is inexperienced, but this should on be the case in low end dungeons. Sometimes it's DPS though. I know as a DPS I've made a mess of some pull because I hit the wrong target. Though now i target tank and use them to target their target. Can't always blame the tank or healer. Sometimes it's the DPS.