"Warrior tank sucks!" opinions only based on one or two factors atm?

[LiquidOuroboros]

Hey guys.

Ive been having a blast playing warrior so far. Im now lvl41 and I was really scared doing instances like Sunken Temple because I heard from friends Im playing with that its really hard. Instead we lol'd through it and I got really great feedback for being a good tank which is always nice <3

Ive never failed a dungeon and the only few wipes Ive been apart of was due to the team having NO CLUE how some bosses worked but we still got through them.

I feel warrior is really strong myself, is the whine threads simply because of a few endgame battles which is harder as a warrior? Do people fail using defensive cooldowns effectively? Will I end up calling you all whiners now only to come back here and join the hate train after garuda/titan hardmode? x)

[BadRNG]

There is a plain mathematical discrepancy in favor of PLD, but it doesn't actually become very noticeable/an issue for most people until around Titan HM. The biggest problem lies in the fact that a PLD's tanking ability scales with enemy damage, while a WAR's scales with his own. This model works for most of the game, but once you have bosses hitting you regularly for 50-80% of your HP your self heals don't cut it and a WAR's defensive cooldowns are a joke compared to a PLD's.

There is a lot of hyperbole abound, like people saying we can't do the content at all - people have proven we certainly can up until round Turn 4 - but it's just a PLD is so much easier to heal and more effective. I remember another posted framed it best as a PLD works with his healer, a WAR depends on his.

[Ysarel]

is the whine threads simply because of a few endgame battles which is harder as a warrior?

Sort of but not really.

PLD is the stronger class from a defensive standpoint. Stronger defensive abilities, some even on better timers. Parry and shield blocks. WAR's self-heals are too infrequent and too underpowered to make up the difference. Storm's Path, the closest thing we have to a spammable self-heal, requires advance planning and has a high opportunity cost (Storm's Eye or Butcher's Block) for low returns. PLD is less likely to eat dirt in any given situation. You could say that this is only significant for the handful of fights that are really considered dangerous for a half-decently geared/skilled tank (Titan, Coil), but it's still a relevant concern further down the difficulty chain. You gain a little extra safety if your healers aren't on the ball. Maybe your healers can DD a bit and speed up the fight. Maybe you can drop a healer for another DD.

(more below)

[Ysarel]

WAR can tank all the content in the game, but PLD makes it easier and/or more efficient. This is the issue that I think Yoshida's off-hand comment about how WAR tanks are fine because the dev team uses them in Coil completely missed. Unless the content is so easy that you need nothing more than a SCH's fairy to heal it, swapping a PLD in for a WAR potentially allows you to improve the efficiency of your group. Even there, the damage output of a Sword Oath PLD isn't all that far removed from what a WAR can dish out.

Don't get me wrong, I love WAR. PLD bores me to tears and I have zero interest in playing it at level 50. If I want to tank, I go WAR. But it could really use some tweaks.

Stupid 1k character limit.

[Tronic]

There is a plain mathematical discrepancy in favor of PLD, but it doesn't actually become very noticeable/an issue for most people until around Titan HM. The biggest problem lies in the fact that a PLD's tanking ability scales with enemy damage, while a WAR's scales with his own. This model works for most of the game, but once you have bosses hitting you regularly for 50-80% of your HP your self heals don't cut it and a WAR's defensive cooldowns are a joke compared to a PLD's.

QFT
/10char

[Exrage]

WAR can tank all the content in the game, but PLD makes it easier and/or more efficient...
Don't get me wrong, I love WAR. PLD bores me to tears and I have zero interest in playing it at level 50. If I want to tank, I go WAR. But it could really use some tweaks.

Stupid 1k character limit.

Ysarel hits it right on the head. Warriors are designed to off tank as we do more damage than paladins and can easily swap to tank mode when they die, hold the boss long enough for the debuff to wear off if we save all our defensive CDs and time them properly, and then they /provoke off us for the +1 enmity with little of a gap in the healer's MP compared to if the paladin hadn't gone down. We can main tank, make no mistake, but for the end game you need a team that can carry the difference that a PUG just won't provide. Just remember the 8 classes/8 slots in a party, we have a role- but so do paladins.

[ChriskoOnAnotherLevel]

Ysarel hits it right on the head. Warriors are designed to off tank as we do more damage than paladins and can easily swap to tank mode when they die, hold the boss long enough for the debuff to wear off if we save all our defensive CDs and time them properly, and then they /provoke off us for the +1 enmity with little of a gap in the healer's MP compared to if the paladin hadn't gone down. We can main tank, make no mistake, but for the end game you need a team that can carry the difference that a PUG just won't provide. Just remember the 8 classes/8 slots in a party, we have a role- but so do paladins.

Warrior might be the only thing you are currently have leveled, but the damage myth has long been parsed. The damage difference between warrior and paladin is SMALL at best. So saying that paladin is better, because we do more damage is just flat out stretching the truth.

Lets be honest here...., Every single major aspect that a tank is required to fill, paladin currently does it better while taking less damage doing it.

The ONLY possible way to fix warrior quickly and efficiently at this point in time is to add a %damage reduction to defiance. Other exotic measure would also work but this is the quickest and fastest method to get their damage taken CLOSE.

I am a firm believer that PLD should always take LESS damage, but the current damage gap is far far too wide to even be considered reasonable.

[Ninjiitstu]

Lets be honest here...., Every single major aspect *that isn't turn 4 coils adds off tank* that a tank is required to fill, paladin currently does it better while taking less damage doing it.

Fixed for you.

[Cocytus]

Fixed for you.

Sweet I can just skip titan HM and turns 1-3 where parties refuse to take me and go straight to turn 4 where I can actually be useful? Nice!!!! I guess I didn't see that button as my it must have been covered up by the giant billboard pointing out the fact warrior's kit is sloppy and needs a tune up or rework. Damn if only I could get around that giant sign. *Yells out* "Yoshi.... You got that crane yet to move this sign?.... What?.. You're the one that put it here?.. You mean its supposed to be there?" Sorry guys looks like its supposed to be there. /shrug

[Nalou]

Warriors are designed to off tank ...

Excuse-me, but I don't understand that "off-tank" concept.
I'm not lv 50 yet, but I've been tanking for years on FFXI, and we never NEVER had a main tank and an off tank.
We always had a couple of equal tanks bouncing hate, which means tanks working together to take hits alternatively, and also means tanks saving each other by pulling hate from their co-tanker at critical moments.
It also means the healer's job is easier, because two tanks double your tanking Hp pool while splitting the damage taken.
It's also safer for the whole raid/alliance, because, in case one tank dies, you can still survive with the other.
Dual-tanking raises the overall survivability, which also allows more room for offensive actions, instead of being defensive all the time, which leads to faster kills.

So, what's the point of having main tank/off tanks alternate while you could be dual-tanking offensive style ?