Shield Swipe, is it even on your bar anymore?

[PiedPiper]

I'd rather spend the GDC on flash to be honest if I need to let TP regenerate some as it generates more enmity and costs 0 TP if you are trying to regenerate TP.

To answer the original question, it's pretty much off my bar as well. I simply don't have room for it in my normal rotations and I don't feel like I'm missing something by not using it which is a shame since Paladins have such a limited set of situational skills as it is.

When we were doing titan progression and farming out lb's, I was on the tp floor alot. But I would just flash until out of mp and rejoin. Usually by then you've made it into jump phases and its a non issue.

On Turn 1, I've tried both methods. Really, there doesn't seem to be any difference in terms of threat (honestly flash probably earns more as most times I've tinkered around and read about it, there seems to be about 500-600 points of enmity from it, and my swipe in full hdl with curtana +1 doesn't hit cad for 600.) I would still use swipe just to up dps a little, but... that's when you've reached the point in your play that your'e also keeping fracture up to up your dps--cus, you know, tank dps has been relevent ever to anything.

The real problem is that its SUCH a hate loss compared to ROH. In any encountere where threat matters (such as cad, cus if your off tank is dpsing you have to build enough threat to let them pewpew, and they won't be getting swipe procs so they'll never stop using their main threat combo), its impossible to use, and honestly, if its an encounter where tank dps matters, its probably one where threat matters. Even on last boss in AK I don't use it (at least not for the first good chunk of the fight) cus which ever dps is full time should be close on threat. I desperately wish this skill was off gcd with a 15 second cool down. I get that it is 1.0's phalanx, but... its just not. Phalanx was a threat tool, it was cool, you actually focused on it as it was a primary threat tool. Phalanx was worth its usage time in both hate and damage. See elsewehre: the shield mattered in 1.0 and in 2.0 is just decoration.

[TirionCrey]

Yeah...once I built enough hate that I don't have to worry about wasting a GCD, I use Shield Swipe whenever it activates cause it's the highest DPS move for PLD on his own. It doesn't interrupt your combo, so there is no reason to not use in between. Especially on things like ADS, or Caduceus, Dreadnought etc...you want the PLD to maximize his DPS on those fights as well.

The only thing now is...Shield Swipe has to be off GCD. Cause making it a proc ability and being on GCD is just stupid...

[Ehayte]

Yeah...once I built enough hate that I don't have to worry about wasting a GCD, I use Shield Swipe whenever it activates cause it's the highest DPS move for PLD on his own. It doesn't interrupt your combo, so there is no reason to not use in between. Especially on things like ADS, or Caduceus, Dreadnought etc...you want the PLD to maximize his DPS on those fights as well.

The only thing now is...Shield Swipe has to be off GCD. Cause making it a proc ability and being on GCD is just stupid...

So, you admit that is extra-powerful and the highest stand-alone dps ability available to you, but then you want it to be MORE powerful by taking it off the GCD and not forcing you to consider whether or not its worth using at the time? I know I might seem like a contrarian but, jeeze, the sense of Pally entitlement is ridiculous around here! With how great our mitigation is, and how faceroll our tanking abilities are, we should be happy we get anything 1/2 as good as CoS, SW, Shield Swipe, or Shield Bash.

That being said - to answer the OP, I have it off my bar because I play on PS3. At lvl 50 I find the 16 button bar very very constricting, and I had to make some comprises. I had it on my bar until level 46 or so though.

[TirionCrey]

So, you admit that is extra-powerful and the highest stand-alone dps ability available to you, but then you want it to be MORE powerful by taking it off the GCD and not forcing you to consider whether or not its worth using at the time? I know I might seem like a contrarian but, jeeze, the sense of Pally entitlement is ridiculous around here! With how great our mitigation is, and how faceroll our tanking abilities are, we should be happy we get anything 1/2 as good as CoS, SW, Shield Swipe, or Shield Bash.

That being said - to answer the OP, I have it off my bar because I play on PS3. At lvl 50 I find the 16 button bar very very constricting, and I had to make some comprises. I had it on my bar until level 46 or so though.

If they take it off from GCD, they should give it a regular cooldown to re-use, just like Spirits Within and Circle of Scorn. That's not what I'm saying, what I'm saying is, it can proc right when you used a GCD, and if you don't use Shield Swipe on your next action(and a lot of times that's just a bad decision), the proc will be gone before the 2nd GCD is ready. So basically you can't just use it when it procced, the proc has to come at a convenient timing, otherwise it's wasted. I wouldn't mind a 20-30sec CD on Shield Swipe, just take it off the GCD...cause that's just stupid. Same goes with Shield Bash...take it off GCD, but give it a CD of like 20-30sec...problem solved.

They are actions that are supposed to be situational and used on short-notice...but if you're limited by the design of the game of GCDs and off-GCDs it makes them frustrating. If I have to hold off for 2-3 seconds on doing anything, just so I can hit Shield Bash for the Stun I want/need at that moment, that's bad design, not "skillful play". Best example Ifrit...trivial fight, don't even have to stun any shit really...but when I MT and Stun him by myself, which basically is all the time, it's just dumb I have to stand there and waste seconds doing nothing, just so I can make sure Shield Bash is not on GCD when I need to use it. It's just 3-4seconds top...but still it's a stupid design choice.

[Ehayte]

snip...but still it's a stupid design choice.

I think you are misunderstanding my point - yes, having it on the GCD is detrimental to the usefulness of the skill. It is that way because it is a powerful skill. Theorycrafters have all but proven PLD is (right now, with current knowledge) superior in single target damage and overall tanking ability. I just feel like you are asking for too much. You are already the best tank, but you want to be able to stun/interrupt without any sort of reduction in any of your other abilities? We are tanks by occupation, we are going to need to sacrifice some of our abilities to fill an alternate role.

I think it is very balanced and they made this well. They made it difficult (not impossible) to tank Ifrit and stun at the same time, so that there is actually a use for your second tank - why do you think they have 2 tank slots in these things? As far as it being frustrating...it supposed to be frustrating to fill two roles at once. They want you to work together, not be so powerful that you can fill two roles with ease.

PS - we're talking about Shield Swipe, but RE: your "skillful play" comment. It IS skillful play because you need to know when not to spam your GCD stuff because you need to be reactive to being able to stun. It takes the skill OUT of it if you can do it whenever you want.

[TirionCrey]

- why do you think they have 2 tank slots in these things? As far as it being frustrating...it supposed to be frustrating to fill two roles at once. They want you to work together, not be so powerful that you can fill two roles with ease.

Because SE is lazy? Titan HM has 2 Tank slots for DF as well...and this fight clearly NEVER requires a 2nd Tank for anything whatsoever. DF forcing people to take 2 tank classes actually gimps the whole group and makes it harder for them to kill Titan.

But yeah I understand your PoV. I personally just don't consider "doing nothing" to be able to Stun as any sort of skill xD Ifrit is ridiculously easy to MT and Stun by yourself.

[Shuon]

i find shield swipe amazing for trash pulls/disabling mobs + mitigating damage totally.

on bosses it's added damage when hate is not an issue. i use it religiously, but then again im only 35

[Stryker]

I use this skill whenever I can. It doesn't interrupt my combo and it actually does produce enmity just like any other damaging skill would. The only difference is that unlike the RoH combo which has an additional bonus of enmity added this is just straight damage.

With Shield Oath activated the damage you do from Shield Swipe is multiplied so it actually does create a decent amount of enmity.

I wouldn't say open with a shield swipe, but after a few RoH combos it's a good skill to weave in. Especially if you just popped bulwark, the damage mitigation from blocking and the damage you do from shield swipe makes it a good skill to have. Personally I like it, but I think it could be better with it off GCD, but that might be too OP. High blocking rate shield and shield swipe off gcd would allow you do some decent damage, which for the developers is not allowed.

[Wyndam]

Pretty much just use it when you're running low on TP and need to conserve. You'll do more damage per GCD with the RoH combo and the pacify is often unreliable, particularly if you have other people in the group throwing out debuffs too. Not only are bosses often immune, but there's diminishing returns to consider. I kinda just expect to see it fully resisted these days. So the real draw to the ability is for TP efficiency, and that only becomes a concern late in a long fight where you have no real threat concerns to deal with. I think it's on my 5 key, which is somewhere easy to reach but not part of the main rotation.

[Wyndam]

There's no reason you can't use Flash as well when TP gets low. Just the blind effect will hit diminishing returns and once that happens all you're getting out of it is threat without the added damage or debuff. Not really the best use of your time when threat isn't much issue. Which... if you've spent all your TP and don't have threat then you're in deep trouble and something went wrong a ways back.