Summoner Question: Where should I spend my Myth tomes first?

[coffeerox]

Like I said, people's mentality right now is "right here, right now, best bang for your buck single pieces" but they're not taking content into consideration and not looking at the overall picture. I'm looking to do Tower and Coil comfortably, so therefore my plan of ilvl90 gear/ilvl 80 weapon is better for the long term. Now as for the short term, like I said, I'm almost at 2000 myth tomes, so I'll be getting 3 pieces at the same time. Consider where we have to go to farm Myth tomes. ilvl 60 content right? Those 3 pieces will ensure that I run that content faster. You hit harder with those 3 pieces than compared to just a +1 Relic.

I literally could +1 my Relic and get 2 pieces from the set. However I have to weigh that versus 3 pieces from the set. Sorry the 3 pieces win out, the stats speak for themselves. From then on, I only need 2 more, and then the overall picture I painted above comes into play. I +1 after that, and it's icing on the cake.

[Highlanderx]

I literally could +1 my Relic and get 2 pieces from the set. However I have to weigh that versus 3 pieces from the set. Sorry the 3 pieces win out, the stats speak for themselves. From then on, I only need 2 more, and then the overall picture I painted above comes into play. I +1 after that, and it's icing on the cake.

There is one thing I haven't seen mention yet, in this thread but many others for +1 your Relic first. The reason is because while you get more person stats going for armor first. You get more party improvement +1 your Relic since The party Limit Break strength is determined by party's weapon average.

[coffeerox]

The reason is because while you get more person stats going for armor first. You get more party improvement +1 your Relic since The party Limit Break strength is determined by party's weapon average.

Intelligence modifies Magic Dmg (your weapon damage), Determination does as well (although this isn't the only thing it does), and Crit doubles the final calculated number after Int/Det/Mdmg/potency resolves. The higher amount of each, the more damage you do. It's not just the weapon itself.

[T0rin]

Intelligence modifies Magic Dmg (your weapon damage), Determination does as well (although this isn't the only thing it does), and Crit doubles the final calculated number after Int/Det/Mdmg/potency resolves. The higher amount of each, the more damage you do. It's not just the weapon itself.

Individual determination, crit chance, base stat, etc. does NOT affect LB damage. The only thing that matters in LB damage is the average weapon damage of your party. If you have a lesser weapon (Relic vs Relic +1), you are lowering your group's LB damage.

[coffeerox]

Individual determination, crit chance, base stat, etc. does NOT affect LB damage. The only thing that matters in LB damage is the average weapon damage of your party. If you have a lesser weapon (Relic vs Relic +1), you are lowering your group's LB damage.

You're not reading it right. I'm speaking in general terms. Nowhere did I mention Limit Breaks. I only responded to that because apparently everyone thinks that the final damage output is contingent upon the weapon. It's not. Your statistics modify weapon damage therefore if you get a higher increase in Int/Det then you're going to modify for higher weapon damage than 3 on the Relic.

[T0rin]

You're not reading it right. I'm speaking in general terms. Nowhere did I mention Limit Breaks. I only responded to that because apparently everyone thinks that the final damage output is contingent upon the weapon. It's not. Your statistics modify weapon damage therefore if you get a higher increase in Int/Det then you're going to modify for higher weapon damage than 3 on the Relic.

If. Except for 900 Myth, you're not.

[Uninstall]

Intelligence modifies Magic Dmg (your weapon damage), Determination does as well (although this isn't the only thing it does), and Crit doubles the final calculated number after Int/Det/Mdmg/potency resolves. The higher amount of each, the more damage you do. It's not just the weapon itself.

This thread is filled with misinformation from you. Crit does not double your damage, as it is a 1.5x multiplier. If you are judging from a pure damage output's point of view, the specific numbers as mentioned by others will means you will do more damage with your Relic+1. Please stop defiling this thread with your autistic point of view as the only thing they do is distract people who're looking for valuable information.

[glim]

This thread is filled with misinformation from you. Crit does not double your damage, as it is a 1.5x multiplier. If you are judging from a pure damage output's point of view, the specific numbers as mentioned by others will means you will do more damage with your Relic+1. Please stop defiling this thread with your autistic point of view as the only thing they do is distract people who're looking for valuable information.

wow you're actually right, I just read all his posts lol.

[T0rin]

There is a difference of 35 Int/12 Crit/18 Det between DL and AF2.

And a loss of 19 spell speed. (albeit this weighs in at less than 1 int worth of damage lost, but let's be accurate all around)

Compare this with Relic+1 (3 wpn dmg, 4 int, 2 det).

For the record, that 3 wpn dmg, 4 int, 4 spell speed and 2 det is worth 25.4 intelligence. The 'bang for your buck' for Relic +1 is 35.43 myth spent per int gained.

Just the first 3 pieces ALONE is a massive upgrade from DL. Do the additions yourself (head+chest+hands vs chest+hands).

So, let's take your example. You would gain 20 int, 55 crit, 9 det, and lose 15 spell speed and 26 accuracy.

Before we get to the accuracy, this comes out to a net increase of 48.25 intelligence. The 'bang for your buck' for upgrading these 3 pieces is 37.62 myth spent per int gained. Now, this is pretty low compared to the overall cost of the set in myth spent per int gained, and therein lies the rub. While this ratio is _almost_ as good as buying a Relic +1, there is a major downside here.

Going for AF2 Head+Body+Gloves will cause you to lose 26 accuracy. This can be a HUGE loss of damage in higher level dungeons, and easily outweigh everything you gain from the switch to AF2 gear, and then some. The potential saving grace here is that you can replace your DL Neck+Wrist with i70 crafted jewelry that is stacked with 12 accuracy each.

So, you can spend 1815 Myth and 2 million gil to end up with a good boost to your stats at a good ratio. Or you can spend 900 myth and 0 gil to end up with a good boost to your stats (though only half as much, though at half the cost) with no need to spend 2 million gil.

If you want to go down this road, you are actually better off buying AF2 Head+Body+Boots, which will mostly make up for the Accuracy loss on it's own, but you gain less damage and the efficiency of Myth spent goes down. But, it also means you don't need to spend millions in gil to make up for the lost accuracy.

I am almost at 2000 Myth tomes so the Chest+Helm+Hands is superior than Relic+1+ 2x 495 pieces. Add up the stats yourself.

So, the problem with this scenario is that it pidgeonholes you into taking AF2 hands+boots (two of the three weakest upgrades), because you can't take head (which is a stronger upgrade) because you aren't replacing the body. You have 2 scenarios that you are comparing... one where you upgrade to the 3 strongest pieces and take a huge loss of accuracy and two where you upgrade to 2 of the weakest pieces and end up with way more accuracy than you need.

Why are we boxing all potential upgrades into this 2000 myth requirements? Seems pretty arbitrary, and is only good for supporting one specific point.

If you are already conceding that it is OK to require someone to spend millions in gil to support a transition from DL into AF2, then by that same merit you can concede that the same is OK to do if you want to buy Relic +1 and AF2 body first, and NOT two 495 myth pieces.

If you go that route and supplement it with a Vanya hat of casting, (since we're spending millions of gil one way or another, right?) you end up gaining 12 int, 45 crit, 30 det, 3 wep dmg and losing 26 spell speed and 27 accuracy. This comes out to be the equivalent of a 57.2 int upgrade, for a whopping 31.91 myth per int. This is definitely the best upgrade in terms of power, and has the same 27 accuracy lost compared to going AF2 Head+Body+Gloves. It also requires you to spend the same amount of money to supplement the lost accuracy with crafted gear.

Those 3 pieces will ensure that I run that content faster. You hit harder with those 3 pieces than compared to just a +1 Relic.

Yes, of course. You hit harder with 1815 myth worth of upgrades than you do with 900 myth worth. Super math required there.

I literally could +1 my Relic and get 2 pieces from the set. However I have to weigh that versus 3 pieces from the set. Sorry the 3 pieces win out, the stats speak for themselves

Or you could do the smart thing and get Relic +1 and the AF2 Body and be better off by far. The stats, do indeed, speak for themselves.

I think I've definitely proved how your approach is wrong, and is misrepresenting what the various upgrade paths are, and their pros and cons. Not everyone is going to have 2 million gil to dump into crafted accessories to make up for all the accuracy you lose taking your preferred path. Not everyone wants to gather up 3000 myth before spending any of it.

Relic +1 is the single best upgrade you take from a Myth spent per damage gained perspective. There is no arguing that, all the numbers support it. Where you go from there is determined by how fat your wallet is, but in no scenario is the route you advocate a good idea.

And want to hear something funny? If you ignore the Relic +1 and just go straight for full AF2.. you get a good boost to damage from AF2 Head+Body+Gloves (really just Head+Body) because you are eliminating the DL pieces that have no +crit, leaving you with a full set of crit gear on all slots, and then when you inevitably replace the Pants+Boots, you actually lose damage going from DL to AF2. (this is also why AF2 pants+boots are not BiS) Full AF2 is a bad idea. From a transition perspective, dropping 43 accuracy and only making up 15 of it, is a bad idea. Everything you propose is a bad idea.

There are good routes to take in upgrading a SMN from DL, but what you advocate for is full of misinformation and bad assumptions.