The opportunity cost of shield bash is too darned high

[Onisake]

There are literally 0 things wrong with PLD right now. it's well balanced. scales well with all content. can be used in almost any situation.

Why are you asking for a buff? it doesn't need it. at all.

[Steeled]

There are literally 0 things wrong with PLD right now. it's well balanced. scales well with all content. can be used in almost any situation.

Why are you asking for a buff? it doesn't need it. at all.

Just because Warrior has problems doesn't mean that Paladin is perfect. Although Paladin is a fine spot, and I'm generally happy with where it is.

I think have Shield bash on no CD (save for the length of the global cooldown) is pretty stupid. I dislike fights where my role (in any game) is primarily or exclusively stunning. It's not rewarding beyond the first time.

[Ehayte]

Not too rewarding to be the person insulted to death when your Shield Bash is resisted because someone else is stunning, though...

A. Stawman | B. You should tell the other party members that NO stuns should be preformed throughout the fight at all, and explain why. Every person you educate will potentially educate 7 more people next time, who will in turn educate 7 more people. Its an epidemic!

Just because Warrior has problems doesn't mean that Paladin is perfect.

Yeah WARs are pretty bad right now, I just don't think we should be requesting to soak up developer resources when there are a huge amount of more blatant and serious issues with other classes.

I dislike fights where my role (in any game) is primarily or exclusively stunning. It's not rewarding beyond the first time.

Which you choose to opine I guess, but I do get a sense of satisfaction every time I see Eruption cut short and a satisfying crunch when my shield hits Ifrit! You could also make the healer's lives easier by doing something like Cover + Hallowed Ground on the MT to lighten healer loads if things get rough. That wouldn't mess with your stunning, wouldn't kill you, and would help out the team.

[Kenka]

A. Stawman | B. You should tell the other party members that NO stuns should be preformed throughout the fight at all, and explain why. Every person you educate will potentially educate 7 more people next time, who will in turn educate 7 more people. Its an epidemic!

A) Agreed. Sorry about that.
B) Tried that. Usually people are quite understanding, yet you still can find some DRGs Leg Sweeping.. But, just like you suggested, after a wipe due to a resist I try to explain what happened and why. I get some flak from certain people, though, just like I mentioned (in a bit of an exaggerated fashion)

Also, I'm glad you find the stun duty fulfilling and satisfactory. For me it's quite the opposite. Boring and downright frustrating more often than not. To each their own

[Onisake]

Just because Warrior has problems doesn't mean that Paladin is perfect. Although Paladin is a fine spot, and I'm generally happy with where it is.

I think have Shield bash on no CD (save for the length of the global cooldown) is pretty stupid. I dislike fights where my role (in any game) is primarily or exclusively stunning. It's not rewarding beyond the first time.

When did war come up?

WAR is completely irrelevant to this discussion. There are still, literally, 0 things wrong with PLD right now. PLD is still well balanced. It still scales will all content. and it can still be used in almost any situation.

just because you get bored when you're on stun duty doesn't meant PLD needs a buff...

[Steeled]

Sigh. I know I'm going to get flamed for this.

There are things to dislike about paladin. It's not the perfect class. It is enjoyable, but it, too, has flaws. Bard is the best DPS due to no mobility or positioning problems, but there are things to dislike about it. Scholar is a great healer, but there are things to dislike about it. I would list some things less than ideal about paladin, but it would sound like I'm complaining and the class is overall enjoyable and in a fine spot. I simply made some suggestions for something I dislike about the class.

[Alpheus]

Sigh. I know I'm going to get flamed for this.

There are things to dislike about paladin. It's not the perfect class. It is enjoyable, but it, too, has flaws. Bard is the best DPS due to no mobility or positioning problems, but there are things to dislike about it. Scholar is a great healer, but there are things to dislike about it. I would list some things less than ideal about paladin, but it would sound like I'm complaining and the class is overall enjoyable and in a fine spot. I simply made some suggestions for something I dislike about the class.

How Dare You!

In all seriousness though I hope they don't go too crazy with the stun requirements in the Big Battles in this game since it got pretty ridiculous in FFXI especially in it's latest expansion.

[Stryker]

snip

Why are you bringing war into this. That has nothing to do with it.

I agree with the OP. I can tank Ifrit HM while stunning and MT, doesn't make it fun. Doesn't make it balanced either. Being a stun bot is an awfully boring thing, and it doesn't help that probably 90% (arbitrary % based upon personal experience) of bosses are immune to stun in most instances. Only in the end game content is it utilized heavily. So PLD goes from tanking to having to stun bot. Also weaving in combos with a stun on GCD means that you can't go as hard as you'd like because you have to leave a buffer in case your last combo triggers GCD when you need the stun.

That's stupid, when people start to have relic or weapons of higher Ilvl than you they pull hate like crazy. I have an ifrits sword, my FC has relics and are moving to relic +1. I try to tank for them but jesus christ their dmg output is insane. So having to stun bot and try to get as much hate from the RoH combo is impossible. The counter argument to that is they should slow down their dps, yes that's true but at the same time, speed runs, or just farming in general you try to complete it as fast as possible.

That is the opportunity cost. But I feel like we should get away from using any terms based out of Economics since many in this community struggle to grasp those concepts.

So yes, I do believe there is a price for using or trying to weave shield bash into the PLD rotation and that cost is too high, pigeon holing us into an undesirable role.

[Ehayte]

I can tank Ifrit HM while stunning and MT, doesn't make it fun.

But I feel like we should get away from using any terms based out of Economics since many in this community struggle to grasp those concepts.

So yes, I do believe there is a price for using or trying to weave shield bash into the PLD rotation and that cost is too high, pigeon holing us into an undesirable role.

1 - Its not supposed to be, its supposed to be extremely challenging because you are doing two people's job at the same time.
2 - LOL, but give these people some respect - a lot of intelligent discussion happens on these boards that helps me become a better player
3 - I disagree. Shield Bash is an extremely powerful tool, and it should come at an extremely high cost. I think they did a great job balancing the cost - only a very skilled player can successful hold aggro and interrupt important enemy abilities, and even then not 100% of the time.

Also - your complaints regarding not being able to hold aggro over people with gear that is much stronger than yours is...well...it makes no sense. You derisively speak down to other forum members regarding their intelligence, but then you subvert your own point by providing a reasonable explanation for your troubles within the same sentence! Of course you are going to struggle to do your job in a group of players that are vastly better equipped than you. That's not even economics, that is literally X < Y .

[Stryker]

Also - your complaints regarding not being able to hold aggro over people with gear that is much stronger than yours is...well...it makes no sense. You derisively speak down to other forum members regarding their intelligence, but then you subvert your own point by providing a reasonable explanation for your troubles within the same sentence! Of course you are going to struggle to do your job in a group of players that are vastly better equipped than you. That's not even economics, that is literally X < Y .

Well the point about gear was to illustrate the opportunity cost of having to shield bash as your #1 priority over trying to generate enmity. Wasn't a perfect example as you pointed out, but I didn't think it would be looked at under such scrutiny. I guess next time I'll try to make a simple example that's also iron clad....

And we won't bother getting into the literal of X<Y because there are a lot of other variables besides X and Y, but that's just nit picking.

No need to turn this into a pissing contest.