This is why the community/DF is so terrible.

[Alcyon_Densetsu]

Personally I think the genre has hit an impass. People want to have a friendly, helping community but at the same time people cry they don't have time for slow games, they have real lives now, and want streamlined content. I don't think mmos are for you if you don't have the kind of time they "used" to take. The reason is hard content builds a community. Most everyone on these forums will remember xi. I played xi from dec 2004 until abysea or w/e expansion was released. I started playing wow at that time, some of my family had been on it for years and convinced me to try it. The first thing I noticed right away is how detached my character felt. You had to put in an incredible amount of time to really accomplish things on your character in xi, so you either learned to get along with others and help people too, or you were labled badly, quit, tried to reroll maybe only to find out it would take you way too long to even reach where you were before, so you quit the game.

The very core of the problem with mmo communities IMO is the dungeon finder itself. Remember even in wow when you had to search for parties in trade chat of you're own server? Honestly I bet I've made 1 friend for every 50 I made when I actually had to find people, chat with them, walk to dungeons instead of just insta-que ect.

But a lot of the mmo community says they want casual content, easy mode playtime, and what it ends up leading to is your only interested in progression at the quickest rate possible. Even just now on my server, I saw someone shouting "lfm CM, relics only 5/8". I had to laugh, and then blacklisted them. Sure they pay for the game too, why can't they do whatever they want? Because the game is multiplayer, the experience of playing with others should be the number 1 reason we are all here, not to just faceroll content asap.

I think you're right about most of what you say, however just two remarks.

MMOs have become something that people now consume, pretty much as they eat a fast food or play a facebook game. That's not bad in and out of itself, but it surely has some dire repercussions on their relationships to others. MMOs being social experiences at their core, it's bound to pretty much strip them of what made special. Players who still want that experience of old times just run with friends via guilds (or Free Companies here), essentially turning the game into a non-massive multiplayer online game. Glorified MUDs, that's what the genre has come to, in an ironic turn of technology history some 20 years after it all began. Maybe this is exactly what you mean when claiming the "genre has come to an impass". The next step is either to remain as such and essentially equate to the end of MMOs as we envisioned them, or to go through a new cycle of innovation in massive online games design. But all of this being closely linked to human nature, and how most "modern" civilizations deal with collective issues, it's by no means evident that there's even a way beyond this.

On the duty finder per se, I think it's worth reminding ourselves that no tool is either good or bad but what we make of it. Hence, back to the human nature conundrum.

[dontcare]

Invalid argument. It does not matter what the majority use a system for, the priority is given to what the system is meant to be used for.

I can assure you the argument is quite valid. Minimizing inconvenience for the greatest number of players is the most rational way to act in this situation. Here's a nice image I found on another forum:

[Jynx]

Quite simply, Power gamers have ruined DF, and have diminished the community at large.

No the Duty Finder ruined the Duty Finder.

There is no way around how it assists in creating a convient tool at the cost of the community in large. Bu...Bu...I has a ife guys.

[Alteiriaa]

It isn't nessicarily the power gamers who ruined the community, it's the assholes who came in, ya know? There is a nice way to tell people that, hey, maybe you aren't geared enough, or, hey! could you maybe skip the CS? Otherwise we may leave you behind! or such like things.

For the people who continue insulting you for watching the CS, or saying you are the most terrible person ever even if you aren't doing half bad, report 'em for harrassment. That is pretty much all you can do until they get bored and leave.

[VictimSix]

From a certain FC recruitment page:




I had a friend who just took up a DF party for Praetorium.

DF put her in with a group (the quote above is theirs) that swore at her constantly, called her the worst healer ever, told her to go back to WoW, and threatened to report her for watching CS. << I kid you not!

She was locked out of boss fights because they ran in while she was watching CS, and she had abuse after abuse heaped on her.

Tell her to try out EVE, she might like it =D Seriously though a lot of these people need to either grow a pair or if chat is that hurtful to you just make it as small as you can when you enter a dungeon and don't look at it.

[indira]

sony is gonna start banning people from there games if you caught doing bad things in other companys games. they dont want bad attitude people. so if your playing this on ps3 you might get your PSN & SOE account banned.

[HorrorStory]

A really big problem is that they've tied storyline dungeons and endgame content into one package, and this just devastates new players who are simply trying to complete the main game. They will definitely have problems keeping up with established veteran (can you even be a veteran after one month?), and Legacy players. At the very worst, you'll be berated by the party. But something like that should never happen to begin with. It's just a poisonous situation all around, and could've easily been avoided with a little bit of foresight.

I'd kill for a solution to this problem. Maybe a solo instance of these dungeons for people who just want to beat the game & avoid any drama.

[Nero]

I'd kill for a solution to this problem. Maybe a solo instance of these dungeons for people who just want to beat the game & avoid any drama.

I could be wrong, but i did read somewhere that we will see 2 Hard Mode Dungeons in 2.1, which would lead me to said Dungeons. This way "Veterans" ( lol ) would mess with the Hard ones and the normal one would be Story-Mode.

[Vod]

Perhaps you should expand your use of the internet outside of games, game forums, youtube, etc, much of the internet is fine, and is at a far more mature level than the aforementioned areas, the problem is not the internet, it is the stupidity and immaturity of many of those who play online games.

Ive been on the internet since before it was popular, pretty sure it isn't the pretty pink roses land you think it is.

[Conkers]

Ive been on the internet since before it was popular, pretty sure it isn't the pretty pink roses land you think it is.

Then maybe that says something about you, the fact is, things like online games, youtube comments, etc are particularly juvenile and immature, if the science forums, natural history forums, etc that I belong to had the same level of discourse as in game chat in an MMO, they would not exist as no one would use them.

The failing lies with those (or at least many of them) who play online games, not the internet.