How will new players perceive this game? (A pessimistic outlook)

[Teroril]

i do see what you mean by it will not fix inflation, but it would level it out. i'll use the cost of buffalo skins on my server for example.

a few months ago a buffalo skin you could purchase in wards for 8k. by the time you bought the dye and chips you could make sell them for 8k each for dyed buffalo leather. you would make a decent profit and the next crafter would make a decent profit off it when they resold the next item in wards.

now the same skin sells for 20k. that increased 12k per skin or 3k per leather however you want to look at it now has the cost of what was 8k for a buffalo leather gone up to around 12k. this also turns around to an increase for the crafter that was buying the skin to make the next item.

if the npc has the skin for a reasonable price say 8-10k which is what the skin was and it is an easy item to get then it would cut the cost of that item in wards by half. we mention the gathering classes, but in most cases alot of the inflation and price gouging has came from the gathering class and as long as raw materials continue to increase the crafting classes will have to continue to raise prices to match.

The reason economies in online games don't work in the same way as in the real world, is because exploitation doesn't exist. There is no world system in which you can underpay some demographic to process whatever good you're selling. So profits are pretty slim. Also, everyone are on the same terms when it comes to production (aside from getting the skill level), so there is no economy of scale. Basically. Most of the incentives that drive competition aren't present in most mmorpgs (besides EVE Online).

And without competition, optimization of markets won't exist, so there is no "invisible hand" to direct the market. This is why making an in-game economy work seems almost impossible.

Maybe, what we need is some reverse Keynesian ingenuity from the developers. Creating incentives to buy from NPCs, when prices are high. But, the main dilemma we're facing in any MMORPG is the paradox of printing money, to create growth. In the mid-term, it creates inflation, because there are too many bills in circulation. So maybe what we need is regulation of gil coming into the market (in this case, the players' hands) through flexible monetary rewards and NPC prices.

Edit: Speaking of Keynes. What we really need, is incentives to spend money within the game, one way or the other, so players don't hoard cash, effectively creating the higher prices.

One suggestion could be to make NPC prices be dependant on how many gil a player has. The more gil the player has, the more expensive the items from the NPC will be. This will create an incentive for players to not hoard. The level of price increase will determine the equivalence of money in each players' hands on average. Of course, players might just start trading... But why not make a flexible tax rate, depending on the amount of money an item sells for? This might require a more advanced algorithm depending on the quality and level of the item sold (so high level rare items aren't sold for less than they are worth).

[Azurymber]

The reason economies in online games don't work in the same way as in the real world, is because exploitation doesn't exist. There is no world system in which you can underpay some demographic to process whatever good you're selling. So profits are pretty slim. Also, everyone are on the same terms when it comes to production (aside from getting the skill level), so there is no economy of scale. Basically. Most of the incentives that drive competition aren't present in most mmorpgs (besides EVE Online).

And without competition, optimization of markets won't exist, so there is no "invisible hand" to direct the market. This is why making an in-game economy work seems almost impossible.

Maybe, what we need is some reverse Keynesian ingenuity from the developers. Creating incentives to buy from NPCs, when prices are high. But, the main dilemma we're facing in any MMORPG is the paradox of printing money, to create growth. In the mid-term, it creates inflation, because there are too many bills in circulation. So maybe what we need is regulation of gil coming into the market (in this case, the players' hands) through flexible monetary rewards and NPC prices.

Edit: Speaking of Keynes. What we really need, is incentives to spend money within the game, one way or the other, so players don't hoard cash, effectively creating the higher prices.

One suggestion could be to make NPC prices be dependant on how many gil a player has. The more gil the player has, the more expensive the items from the NPC will be. This will create an incentive for players to not hoard. The level of price increase will determine the equivalence of money in each players' hands on average. Of course, players might just start trading... But why not make a flexible tax rate, depending on the amount of money an item sells for? This might require a more advanced algorithm depending on the quality and level of the item sold (so high level rare items aren't sold for less than they are worth).

great post.

Only thing i see wrong with scaled npc prices is that people would transfer gil to another character and just buy stuff on that character.

I think incentives are the key though. This could be accomplished with the company system. Ex.
Each company has 20 really good items which you can buy with company points
Every day the company requests one piece of equipment from the game, which is random and different for every person. You can find what this item is via a npc linkpearl.
If you return it you get x points.

This would create a market for the 100s of current goods that are lacking in demand. It would force people to trade more, which would increase the gil depletion via taxation. And if coupled with NPC's that sell mats at a much better price than currently, it would provide a gil sink through purchases from NPC;s.

Then again there are 100 different possible ways to fix the problem. It just doesn't seem like SE is capable of it or has any clue what they are doing economy-wise.

[Nabiri]

I've actually been a bit worried about the economy and how things are just being allowed to inflate and inflate with no major gil sinks right now.

As much as people would complain about it, I feel it would be best to abolish anima, (or at least lower it a LOT.. 10 anima? with the same refresh rate it has currently - or maybe a bit faster?)with the addition of chocobos and airships. And then have chocobos and airships cost a lot.
People will save their (10?) anima for when they have to get somewhere immediately or don't have much time to play, and use the gil sink transportation far more often. I can't see people using chocobos and airships much at all at the moment with anima as is, but I think those could be a great way to take gil out of the game. People want to get somewhere and get there fast. Make it costly, with little anima for free emergency trips.

[Verecund]

The game feels dead because everyone congregates in one zone.
The game is currently dead because technical bugs, broken mechanics and shoddy gameplay drive (and will drive) alot of people away (if they can even run the game).

Also, the graphics are great, but the world is hardly immersive or engaging.

[Kilta_Firelotus]

SE only implemented quests because players were complaining that levequests were too boring and repetitive and wanted stories.
The quests are no different than levequests except they have a lot more running
Some of the levequests actually have more story stuff written in them
So for the average player, this is FAR from what was desired.

If you think that the majority of people playing MMOs want to run around for an hour to learn one little thing about the lore than you really haven't played many MMOs out there.

How many quests have you actually done by the way?

I played 30 mmo including MUD which had a RP stay in character rule. Not everyone likes a cynic btw. This incluse ffxi, WoW and DCUO. If the "adverage player" has no interest in the story, then they shouoldn't complain about it.

[Kilta_Firelotus]

I've actually been a bit worried about the economy and how things are just being allowed to inflate and inflate with no major gil sinks right now.

As much as people would complain about it, I feel it would be best to abolish anima, (or at least lower it a LOT.. 10 anima? with the same refresh rate it has currently - or maybe a bit faster?)with the addition of chocobos and airships. And then have chocobos and airships cost a lot.
People will save their (10?) anima for when they have to get somewhere immediately or don't have much time to play, and use the gil sink transportation far more often. I can't see people using chocobos and airships much at all at the moment with anima as is, but I think those could be a great way to take gil out of the game. People want to get somewhere and get there fast. Make it costly, with little anima for free emergency trips.

Would alienate those with harsh time limits who can use 10 anima easy.

[Azurymber]

I played 30 mmo including MUD which had a RP stay in character rule. Not everyone likes a cynic btw. This incluse ffxi, WoW and DCUO. If the "adverage player" has no interest in the story, then they shouoldn't complain about it.

Like i said, this thread has nothing to do with you. Its about the average player. and so far the only 2 people who have defended quests are low ranked people who aren't even capable of doing most of the quests. This thread is about the average player. And saying "well if the average player is stupid they should just get over it" isn't going to make this game successful. So please stop saying the same thing over and over again and trolling this thread.

[Kallera]

Like i said, this thread has nothing to do with you. Its about the average player. and so far the only 2 people who have defended quests are low ranked people who aren't even capable of doing most of the quests. This thread is about the average player. And saying "well if the average player is stupid they should just get over it" isn't going to make this game successful. So please stop saying the same thing over and over again and trolling this thread.

Speaking as the average player.
I enjoy doing the quests, they impart a large amount of lore, and give an alternative way to get started on the gear/mats for your level. Guild tasks, depending on if you in the right city for it, can be helpful for that annoying craft you want out of the way, we can use more of them.

Also, most average players aren't interested in viewing the forums, one cursory look would probably explain why.
I do see more people using lodestone blogs, on the other hand.

[Lerris]

Like i said, this thread has nothing to do with you. Its about the average player. and so far the only 2 people who have defended quests are low ranked people who aren't even capable of doing most of the quests. This thread is about the average player. And saying "well if the average player is stupid they should just get over it" isn't going to make this game successful. So please stop saying the same thing over and over again and trolling this thread.

The thread title refers to "new" players, not "average" players.

And Kilta said if the average player "has no interest in the story, they shouldn't complain about it". That's not the same as calling average players "stupid"- that's YOUR word. At this point, you're arguing because you dislike Kilta, and really shouldn't be berating her for losing track of the thread's topic, as you've done the same thing.

[Radaghast]

Just turn off Gridania entirely to new players. That area alone will drain the soul of any new player.