[dev1022] Auto-attack system questions and discussion

[Betelgeuzah]

With the number of attacks of different classes that you have on hand there's no reason you should ever be spamming anything.

Well, the current game mechanics and encounters don't really give a reason to use anything else, even if it would be beneficial. But that's not a problem that should be solved with an auto-attack. How 'bout we fix the game so that the skills are actually required in everyday gameplay, instead of taking the approach that "well hell, it's not like I have anything else to do, might as well use this special skill to not be bored out of my mind"?

[Mr_Gyactus]

I don't see any good reason to add an autoattack in this game, but I think an improvement in damage and TP is welcome.
I feel like i'm forced to use autoattack because I want TP and I cannot generate enough with an hit, but if SE adds more buff/debuff with normal attack, this sensation should disappear.

[Ciden]

Let's remember they have the battle director that made the system for Xenogears. the light, mid, hard, combo/stamina bar. Despite Xenogears being a turnbased system, it had a good fast paced action feel. If they could implement a system where actions/combos can be stacked, and special abilities have some beneficial correlation to each other on how the action loop was executed leading up to that special attack, it could make a case to keep the current attack system. Tobal no1 comes to mind when you added that 4th button it gave you a whole different combo attack set, and you could punch a whole group of enemies in the face if they got in your way (dungeon mode).

[Hadeed]

why not make Auto attack as an ability ?

You use skill "Auto Attack" will make you attack faster and limited skills to use while using Auto Attack.

Auto Attack will give boost in TP for a time to charge up and do DoT , there is timer for this ability like 1 mint recast and last for 2 mints.

just a thought about the Auto attack is like a charger of TP or charger of skills ? like with Auto Attack you can unlock new skills.

[OmegaNovaios]

Well, the current game mechanics and encounters don't really give a reason to use anything else, even if it would be beneficial. But that's not a problem that should be solved with an auto-attack. How 'bout we fix the game so that the skills are actually required in everyday gameplay, instead of taking the approach that "well hell, it's not like I have anything else to do, might as well use this special skill to not be bored out of my mind"?

Exactly, the game is too easy, and IMO the fastest/most effective route to any strategy ATM is spamming 1 for TP to put out the most damage possible and even in the compromise of not being able to use actions like Feint it's still most beneficial to spam 1 to use 5 (which the other option is not to queue attacks but with lag/latency then you attack slower and it's not worth it) which I should have specified is a 2000+ TP move to use 4 attacks buffs on for a massive amount of damage in my previous post.

With an auto attack at least you are semi-forced to use other actions in between those TP actions (since it would be beneficial) and SE could make battles more difficult so that you are completely forced to do this or lose.

As for people who really just want to spam for some reason despite all proposals I say this (which isn't everyone on this forum even those against auto attack).

"SAVE THE SPAM, SAVE THE WORLD!?" and "I ATE SPAM FOR BREAKFAST, I'D RATHER NOT HAVE IT FOR LUNCH, DINNER AND FOURTH MEAL AS WELL!"

If you really want to spam that badly then you can just push 1 twice as fast to toggle on/off the auto attack rapidly and if you are one of those people who like to alternate regular attacks then you can just push 1,2,1,2 (which would actually require skill in order to time perfectly for optimal attack speed/damage/TP build).

Now back to making battles harder. This should happen no matter what. Now I ask you would you rather have harder battles forcing you to think AND use other actions and have battle queues/slight or moderate spamming for those who don't spam/lag+latency screwing you over (because this game has a server side client) or would you rather have auto attack and be forced to use all other skills instead (at a much faster pace because the game is harder, including faster Battle Regimens as well).

Edit: This game is too easy whether you you spam 1,1,1,1,1,5 or if you try to mix up skills or not so there isn't any advantage over 1,1,1,1,1,5 because it's the easiest path and works perfectly at least most of the time (you can certainly get to Rank 50 doing this). Also, consider that if the game was harder would you rather have auto attack to lessen inconveniences of server side issues + using inferior battle tactics with stronger ones or keep them?

[OmegaNovaios]

Thanks for your write up.

I belive the waits you have included in your mock battle make the battle seem slower and less enjoyabel to me.

Would not a battle regimen that was requiring peopel to be on the ball and be quick to react be better than one that allows them 30 seconds(an example, of course) to react.

I fail to see how auto attack makes the game more interactive, just less I have to do, less interactive, less decisions for me to make... I thought strategy was about making decisons, my bad.

Most people aren't on the ball right now because people aren't even willing to attempt to practice Battle Regimens which Battle Regimens are more likely to be on the ball with an auto attack because people are going to get better at it each time they perform one which an auto attack still encourages people to be on the ball so they can get back to using more beneficial "tactical actions" like cure, featherfoot, provoke, or whatever.

[Betelgeuzah]

With an auto attack at least you are semi-forced to use other actions in between those TP actions (since it would be beneficial) and SE could make battles more difficult so that you are completely forced to do this or lose.

The bolded already accomplishes what needs to be done. The auto-attack becomes a pointless addition when the content demands more thoughtful usage of abilities in the first place.

Now I ask you would you rather have harder battles forcing you to think AND use other actions and have battle queues/slight or moderate spamming for those who don't spam/lag+latency screwing you over (because this game has a server side client) or would you rather have auto attack and be forced to use all other skills instead (at a much faster pace because the game is harder, including faster Battle Regimens as well).

I would rather have battles where the proper use of basic attacks allow for more in-depth strategies, on top of harder battles and improved battle regimens. Especially if the groundwork for this kind of system is already in the game, so it would take less work to get it functioning.

Also, consider that if the game was harder would you rather have auto attack to lessen inconveniences of server side issues + using inferior battle tactics with stronger ones or keep them?

I would rather Square work on improving the server side issues rather than going around them in a cheap attempt to fix the combat.

[ChiefCurrahee]

I would rather Square work on improving the server side issues rather than going around them in a cheap attempt to fix the combat.

What if reducing the amount of server load due to user input solves the server side issues? Just sayin'.

Taking a single attack out of the players hands and making it an interval attack done once a player engages a mob isn't lessening or dumbing down the combat. It's streamlining the combat so the player can focus on the meat and potatoes in the heat of combat instead of the tedious chore of coming back to you #1 key.

It's especially more noticeable when using a gamepad. And will become a HUGE issues with the PS3 player base, why not nip it in the bud now instead of having further negative opinions by reviewers and frustrated players again? or do you like history repeating itself?

[Betelgeuzah]

What if reducing the amount of server load due to user input solves the server side issues? Just sayin'.

Yes, instead of properly fixing the server load issues they would rather take a gameplay function out of the game and hope that it fixes everything. I'm sure everyone will agree..

Taking a single attack out of the players hands ... isn't lessening the combat.

Interesting logic.

It's streamlining the combat so the player can focus on the meat and potatoes in the heat of combat instead of the tedious chore of coming back to you #1 key.

What "heat of combat"? Is the gameplay so complex and fast-paced right now that you can't perform to your fullest? I don't believe you.

There is no "tedious chore" for keyboard players, and that problem (with the action bar) is easy to fix for gamepad users as well.

Yes, why not make a slight alteration to the existing controls to fix the problem instead of making huge changes that accomplish pretty much the same thing (or even make the game worse)? Why not indeed! That's the topic of this thread.

[Shadowskill]

Good morning. I started a thread.. apparently should have added to this one, my mistake. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...nt-Auto-attack
Gives a simple outline on how this feature can be added. as well few other topics I touched on.
Stats, abilities. figured I would add this, to this thread. where it probably belongs.

Thank you.