[dev1022] Auto-attack system questions and discussion

[Alcide]

Might as well increase the damage by all abilities, rather than implementing auto attack. Honestly don't see the point in it.

This ^

Normal attacks in FFXIV are NOT meant to be spammed, they have different effects like all the other abilities so there's no point in spamming them and there's no point in an auto attack feature.
You absolutely don't have to spam normal attacks on NM, in several occasions you even have to stop dps, so what's the point? you want it so you can chat during guildleves? pretty lame.

Basically if you want an auto attack feature you want a dot and, guess what, you already have plenty of them :O cast poison, dia, bio, drown or whatever you want, so you can keep chatting >.>

[Nipa]

Seriousely, I really can't seem to understand how can someone think the battle system is spammy, i NEVER spam auto attack.

If you feel the game is spammy just learn how to play your class, don't blame the devs.

I leveled from 1 to 25, as a conjurer, mainly doing Behests and leves. I did not found any solo-target skill with a better dps than my standard attack. I tried to use spells, but unless they hit at lest 3 targets, I found it wasn't worth it.

Basically all what I did was spamming 1 (with a macro) and a heal here and there.

I am ok with this gameplay during the first 30 minutes of the game. But after that, I expect at least a more interesting skill rotation. And I certainly don't count the unnecessary buff recast as a rotation.

I'm not blamming the devs for the system. Maybe there is a more efficient rotation than spamming 1, but after hours of play I wasn't able to find it.

And this, from my point of view, is exactly the same : after hours of gameplay, I can only spam 1, and this is certainly not interesting.

So if there is actually something better to do than spamming the basic attack, devs should make this clearer to the player. And I'm speaking of in-game information, not obscure hints maybe written on a page of the lodestone.

As explained earlier, 'bigger numbers' or 'different (and visible!) effects' for abilities could be a nice solution.

[Suirieko]

I personally opposed the auto-attack system, mostly because, even though we're just spamming the attack it feels more, FFish to me, you know. While we do need more abilities, or more reason to use em, I find it more fun to do a couple of attacks, build up my TP then spam a few chain of attack abilities, like Trammel, Leg Sweep, etc. I feel that auto-attack could just take that away.

[Pardz]

TBH, I think if combat is more streamlined there wouldn't be such a huge need for auto attacks. There are so many times where I'm hitting the light attack button only to just stand there while unsheathing my sword then waiting for the attack to actually occur. It really frustrates me how clunky the battle system can be at times. But I think if they polish it more and make it so inputs don't take so long to process it would be much better.

[Dyvid]

Instead of Auto-Attack why not a Command Stack like FFXIII? You select commands to be placed into the queue. Then the abilities are executed like normal. Only difference is you aren't spamming abilities.

An example would be as such:
[Light Attack][Light Attack][Heavy Attack][Weapon Skill][Guard]
[========____________________________________________]

[Luhy]

To address the difference between Light and Heavy attack, choosing one or the other could just make that your new auto-attack until you select another.

I think it's been argued by many people that an auto-attack feature is necessary. It's difficult to throw away a system you worked hard on, but in the end, you want players to be comfortable. We would rather talk to one another and worry about buffing our weaponskills than pressing one button over and over and not being able to socialize.

[Jovy]

Auto attack is not needed. The problem with the stamina gauge is there is no thought to using it. We should be able to combine attacks with tp moves. Or make it where we put some thought into using stamina weather it be because of the mob we are fighting or its weakness to blunt or pierce... or accumulating stamina for a comboed attack. Combining 2 spells or or 2 tps moves would help with these. This can also lead to better battle regimens.

[Powercow]

What I think would be awesome though would be the ability to mix "special normal attacks" (like Pummel or Flurry) in with an autoattack using your stamina bar.
Let's say, for example, a Pugilist attacks every 3.0 seconds with two punches with autoattack. Flurry, Pummel, weapon skills, etc. would all be on the stamina bar and separate from autoattacks. Any abilities used from the stamina bar would delay your autoattack by... oh... 0.6 seconds so the animation could go through smoothly, and to keep the pace reasonable.

Example:
0.0 Autoattack.
3.0 Autoattack.
3.2 Flurry.
6.6 Autoattack.
6.8 Flurry.
7.4 Flurry.
10.8 Autoattack.

So pretty much you could autoattack normally, but you'd also be able to use your stamina bar to throw in some extra punches with Flurry to up your basic DPS, or a few with Pummel for some more TP, or throw in a Victimize for a nice burst of damage (and to make use of TP.)

This type would allow you to feel like the pace of combat is faster (as your character is doing more actions) but less spammy and more tactical (since you are inputting less actions that have a greater consequence.) In the above example you attack 7 times (well, double/triple attacked) in just under 11 seconds, but the input was only 3 actions. But those 3 actions would heavily dictate how combat paces itself.

Good? Bad? Not clear?

[Minzara]

I love if they added Auto-attack. I get tired of pressing the same button over and over. It's hard to do other skills while doing that. For example, healing, or buffing. With Auto-attack, or so form of one. This well be fixed I hope.

[Ava]

I feel that auto attack can only benefit the game. While I do enjoy playing games that offer a variety in gameplay, the truth of the matter is this is a MMORPG. It lives by people feeding the developers subscription fees. Square's priority should be bringing in new players and to do that they need to make the game more familiar to MMO players. For this reason, I support an auto attack system regardless of my personal feelings.

Now, for my personal feelings, I like where the combat system is right now but I think the classes could use a lot more variety. If you look at other MMORPGs different classes have their own "gimmick" that makes them feel unique. Some examples are in WoW, Rogue uses energy + combo points, warrior uses rage, death knight uses runic power and runes. These varied resource systems make each class feel unique regardless of whether or not you're spamming 1-2 buttons. I think that a system similar to this would go a long way in making XIV more enjoyable for me.

For example, I play a Thaumaturge. The description (going off memory) was roughly a mage that harnesses both light and dark magics. So why not do some sort of a balance system for Thaumaturge? For each umbral spell you cast, your umbral spells get stronger, but if you cast too many you hit overload and have all of your umbral spells locked out. In order to lower your umbral meter, you have to cast some Astral spells to prevent overloading. This would give Thaumaturge a sort of rotation. This would take place of Stamina, THM resources would be Balance and Mana only.

For Pugilist, there could be like a combo system. This system could be a system where a player queues up several different attacks ahead of time, and different combinations have different effects. They could have like a self battle regimine system similar to how SAM could self skillchain in XI. A Pugilist could have some form of "points" (think runes in wow/death knight) and each ability set in the queue would consume points depending on how much damage it does. They can then release this combo at the expense of all points which would then slowly regenerate over time. The combo would release the attacks at a higher FPS and the benefit would be the high burst which would need to be properly timed so that you dont pull hate. In this system, PUG would use combos and stamina, no mana.

There are major problems with a system like this, though. There are problems with adding new jobs because after the players play with these systems it's hard to top them, there are only a handful of different unique combinations you can really have before they start feeling rehashed. In addition, using a system like this might be difficult without adding some form of auto attack because using my ideas, what would a Pugilist do between combos? Maybe they'll need to seperate their skills into two categories, "Combo moves" and "Regen/Buffs".

tldr: I'm all for auto attack and think that it's probably the dev's most reasonable option, but I do think that there is potential in the current system.