[dev1022] Auto-attack system questions and discussion

[ChiefCurrahee]

The problem lays with the need to generate TP.

Lets take other MMOs for example.

WoW,Aion,Lotro,Rfit,LieneageII,ect ect.
The combat mechanics allow you to issue any of your attacks on demand, pulling from 1 governance pool (Mana,Stamina,action ect ect) and no more than 1 pool. With that, that pool recharges at a set rate, augmented by gear and stats.
In these games, you start combat at 100%. It's up to the player what attack to use. Fire off the mega nuke? or attack with small "DoT" attacks? Any way you look at it all skills, sans conditional, are at your disposal from the get go.

FFXIV uses up to 3 governance pools! You have to issue the TP generating command to store enough TP to use that WS and sometimes that WS uses MP as well. None of them regen on their own. You are forced into attacking.

The system is "spammy" not because players are pressing 11111 it's because of the need to constantly press any button.

Lets face it. If you stand idle you lose DPS, you lose TP gain which leads to more DPS loss.

The current battle system mechanics doesn't fit into how the game was originally designed.

How many of you remember alpha? Remember that battle system. where your attack bar would fill up once it reached 100% you could issue a command, or wait and let it power up further for more dmg/acc?
Remember SP gains were based on the quality of the action taken, not the speed of which you could kill a mob?

SE dropped the ball when they changed the power bar mechanic to the stamina bar to speed up combat,but failed to change anything else associated with battle mechanics. Then dropped the ball again when they patched in set SP, and failed to change the battle system to fit accordingly.

So now the best strategy is to kill at break neck speeds for the best SP gains, in order to do that you have to constantly issue commands, to constantly issue commands other than your non TP attacks (basic attacks) you need TP so you issue TP gen attacks.

I want to see an AA implemented because the the current need to gen TP to issue what should be our "more meaningful attacks" becomes tedious, nearly to the verge of "whats the point of using anything else?"

If TP generated automatically during battle w/o having to issue an attack there would be no need for AA.

How about getting rid of TP as a whole and put all skills on a cool down?

Make mechanics more in line with "standard" MMOs.

Don't want that either?

Well according to SE's polls a majority aren't happy with the current system in place. AA is a viable solution for the "spammy" nature of the game. Adjustments would have to be made globally to the the battle system, but it's cheaper and less labor intensive than building a new system from the ground up.

[Malakhim]

Stuff.

So if I'm understanding right, what you're saying is that the biggest problem with the system right now as opposed to other MMOs is the fact that you have to "build up" the ability to use your best stuff? I can sort of agree with that.

It's mostly true with melee and not with magic users from my experience though. I don't know any magic spells that require TP, and assuming you don't get that stupid bug that drains all your stamina before a fight begins, you can unload your best spells right from the get go.

Your argument about why the game is "spammy" is interesting, but at the same time, you still had to "build up" TP to use weapon skills in FFXI, although admittedly there was no button pushing there. Although almost every Final Fantasy post VI required you to deal/recieve damage to unleash limit breaks, and it wasn't until FFX that they introduced alternate methods of generation(I forget the specifics though). That's kind of a Final Fantasy thing at this point.

Also, as a bunch of people pointed out, abilities that you buy at guilds have different effects, like added TP generation(at higher stamina costs) or "combo" hits in the case of Flurry. Weapon skills aren't pointless, because they'll usually add in an elemental effect, higher damage, AoE, an enfeeble, or all of that.

I'll agree with the point that SE seems to have made key changes in the way the battle system works without actually making sure that everything else is consistent with the change, however. I think Andrein's post about AA in FFXI is probably very true because of this point: There was much more consistency with FFXI's systems than there are here.