[dev1022] Auto-attack system questions and discussion

[Fiosha_Maureiba]

Only read OP, going to post, then go back and read, but I see two forms of implementation here.

Auto-attack is a toggle for on/off in the Options menu and with some kind of keyboard or gamepad shortcut. By having it on, whatever 0 TP attack skill you choose at the start of combat (or switch to during combat) becomes your Auto-Attack. And it doesn't spam the Stamina bar, so it will attack, allow for time to replenish the stamina bar, then attack again. This would allow other stamina actions to be used, allow the player to type without feeling like they're doing nothing for the battle, and when the player is ready to take control of their stamina, they toggle off AutoAttack and do the spammy thing they do.

Second implementation which would require some overhaul: Keep the stamina bar, make it regen slower. Choosing a 0 TP attack becomes your auto attack until another ability is chosen. Its attack speed is based on the old amount of stamina it used to consume. So Broad Swing auto attack would be slower than the standard attack. Slow would reduce auto attack speed. Haste / Speed Surge would increase auto attack speed.

In regards to voice chat, it may be a nice option to implement in-game, but I don't see the majority of players using it, even if they have mics. I'm only basing this off of Steam games where voice chat is built in and only four to five out of twenty players will talk. And from Xbox Live, playing a non-FPS game, you may have three out of eight players willing to use their mics.

[Betelgeuzah]

In regards to voice chat, it may be a nice option to implement in-game, but I don't see the majority of players using it, even if they have mics. I'm only basing this off of Steam games where voice chat is built in and only four to five out of twenty players will talk. And from Xbox Live, playing a non-FPS game, you may have three out of eight players willing to use their mics.

Obviously this would be for those people who feel like they have no chance to communicate in-game. If they for some reason don't use the feature, then S-E can't really be blamed for that.

[Quoc]

I'd rather be talking to someone than typing what I want to say. Also with the combat system, I like it the way it is. It feels quick and engaging. Putting in an auto attack feature and taking out some of the current battle features would make the game boring. I want to be "doing something" when I'm fighting monsters, not just pressing "attack" and watching my character swing at the monster until it's dead. If I want my character to attack twice, I'll press "attack" twice. I don't want the game to spam on my behalf.

[ChiefCurrahee]

what is everyone so resistant to taking just one single attack off the users hands and let it attack in an interval depending on weapon type (delay)

Are you thinking it'll slow down combat, that they will be waiting around for their TP gauge to fill to 3000 before firing off skills? This isn't FFXI where you auto attack for 6-15 TP a swing and wait 5-10 attacks before you're able to use a TP skill.
FFXIV you can attack once and then be able to use your TP immediately. (the argument that you shouldn't be spamming 1)

The point is auto attack will take the tedium out of the necessity of having to constantly revert back to you're #1 for the simple fact of TP gain.

People have counter-argued that auto attack takes away from guild purchased skills or alternative basic attacks.

Have some foresight and think of how these skills can be tweaked to fit in this role.

Lancer for instance.
Heavy thrust:
binds the target in place.
this can be left as is. It's a situational attack. the mob is fleeing or goign after a mage, Try to bind it in place.

Pierce:
attacks monsters between you and your target.
This can be tweaked in 2 ways. 1) make it a basic attack upgrade so that now your auto attack is AOE. 2) make it a slot-able ability so people can choose to have AOE on/off

Full Thrust:
Your attacks gain greater TP
This can be made a basic attack upgrade, and further define what separates a lancer from say... a Gladiator... or a Pugilist for that matter.

I'm not for having a system to play the game for me, don't get me wrong. I don't want slow boring combat. But I also would like a chance to chat with the people I'm grouping with mid combat, and have them respond. I would like enjoy my time playing this game for more than 30 min, but I become increasingly fatigued by the shear amount of input needed per fight to select skill after skill. It's like playing Dance Dance Revolution the MMO on a gamepad. At least on a keyboard it's a 1:1 input to action where on a gamepad its 2-5:1 input(s) to action.

Auto Attack is a means of middle ground, where TP accrual is automated and the user has the ability to use skills/abilities at will.

We aren't asking for FFXII gambits where we sit back and watch the game play for us.
This won't lead to more bots in game.
This won't become washed out game mechanics.

What this will do is reduce user load of having to manage even single swing made.
Reduce server load for having to send receive send for EVERY input.
Offer opportunity to interesting gear and weapon stats.
opportunity for devs to define classes in a more controlled environment.

It's not the end of Eorzea if AA is introduced. But I think it'll make a better Eorzea with AA than w/o AA.

[Betelgeuzah]

I don't want slow boring combat.

You want combat where you will be able to chat in a combat situation. You want combat that doesn't make you "fatigued".

Slow and boring combat is exactly where this leads to. Whether it's a small step towards slow and boring combat or a huge step doesn't matter- it doesn't justify it either way.

opportunity for devs to define classes in a more controlled environment.

This is the only proper advantage for implementing the system. And even this sounds like an excuse on the developers part for not being able to create a balanced combat system without dumbing it down first.

[Anathiel]

I think auto attack needs implemented, and any "normal" attacks that were supposedly not just spam actions be renamed into "cooler" names. I.e. heavy attack renamed to something special attack

[Malakhim]

Problem is they already introduced an active attack, and people such as myself enjoy it quite a bit, and would hate to see it removed.

So "whoops" on SE's part.

The best they can do to satisfy all parties involved would be to have an optional setup, but then they'd have to figure out how do balance it out effectively with the current system.

This is without mentioning PvP of course.

[Naqaj]

what is everyone so resistant to taking just one single attack off the users hands and let it attack in an interval depending on weapon type (delay)
[...]
It's not the end of Eorzea if AA is introduced. But I think it'll make a better Eorzea with AA than w/o AA.

Can't speak for everyone, but I'm against auto-atack because it doesn't solve any of the problems the current combat system has, and it would make an already unengaging combat system even more so.

It's certainly not going to be the end of Eorzea, the old XI-players will probably love it, and maybe that is the target audience SE should aim for now. But taking this step backwards with the combat system would mean one of the two key features that initially drew my interest to XIV would be gone. The other being the Armoury that might be gutted in favour of classic jobs.
What's left of the game after those changes go through simply isn't worth staying for.

[Gildrein]

Hello everyone,

We have been continuing to poke Dev. teams to give more details on the upcoming change on FINAL FANTASY XIV so that we can give a glimpse of them to the players. As of now, we are hoping that we can give sneakpeaks to you all sometime next week. Hopefully the question on the size of the icon can be revealed, along with many other questions players are having. We will give an update once more details become available so please look forward to it!

Oh, and we are continuing to look forward to receive more feedbacks on the game from you all.

[Betelgeuzah]

Looking forward to it!

I think this thread may be better in the 'game mechanics' sub forum, though?