Summoners useless in 24mans?

[Malamasala]

Let me throw this idea out there.

How about actually planning some and letting jobs focused on DoTs DoT and jobs focused on damage do damage? I'm sure that if there is a cap on DoT, you may as well deal direct damage with your heavy DPS classes instead of block a DoT class from dealing damage.

Sure, won't work very well in pugs, but you kind of have to expect 24 man pugs to be rather poor and inefficient.

[Hanabira]

Let me throw this idea out there.

How about actually planning some and letting jobs focused on DoTs DoT and jobs focused on damage do damage? I'm sure that if there is a cap on DoT, you may as well deal direct damage with your heavy DPS classes instead of block a DoT class from dealing damage.

Sure, won't work very well in pugs, but you kind of have to expect 24 man pugs to be rather poor and inefficient.

Glad you brought this up. At what time should you ask 20 players not to use half of their abilities (since alot of skills have debuffs attached) just so a couple of smns in the alliance can perform as designed? Never...ever...ever.

[Kantide]

As a SMN, I will say that this needs to be fixed. Even if they just moved debuffs to it's own 30 debuff area and DoTs to another that would fix the issue. Maybe not for FATEs but for 24 mans.

[davidbowie]

when the patches start rolling out i see tweaks in all classes to make them viable in end game i would at least give them a chance to roll those out and fix some of the more burning issues like EXCESSIVE RMT AND BOTTING!

[Eidolith]

I see a lot of complaining, valid though it might be, it's still complaining, why don't people try to add what they think might help alleviate the problem? We're a ton of people on this board and sometimes a brilliant idea pops up, who knows, maybe the dev team will pick some of the ideas.

Well my ideas that could help summoners are:

Make it so more of the same dots/hots get added together, so two people throwing bio on a mob makes just one dot with double the potency/time.

Another idea is to make a summon's damage scale depending on the ammount of dots you have on the mob.

Or just increase dot limit and remove the icons for dots that you didn't cast yourself (as i'm guessing the limit might mainly be to avoid too many dot/hot icons cluttering the screen.

Not claiming my ideas to be brilliant or even good, just suggestions.

[Krisan]

Are you sure it's a 30 debuff cap per mob, and not just.. you know, a 30 debuff display cap? Either way, how many SMN are you expecting to bring anyway? 24 is just three parties.. You don't need more than one SMN per group honestly, no one does, though that applies to most Jobs in a lot of cases.

[Evangela]

not true. it's the only DD that can heal and swiftcast+raise.

swiftcast+Titan = emergency tank.

[Pellegri]

Make it so more of the same dots/hots get added together, so two people throwing bio on a mob makes just one dot with double the potency/time.

Another idea is to make a summon's damage scale depending on the ammount of dots you have on the mob.

Not claiming my ideas to be brilliant or even good, just suggestions.

And by making it so dots scale depending on number of dots for summoners then you just made summoner the most op class in the game and the biggest fotm thing ever. What needs to happen(and it is not complaining) is they need to drop the dot cap and make it so you can only see your parties dots on the mobs(4 people per party) and then they need to make it obvious which dots are yours. Anything more than that and it would be going overboard, it literally is that simple what they need to do so any class that uses dots isn't completely gimped on fights where the dot cap may even be an issue.

[Vmage]

Are you sure it's a 30 debuff cap per mob, and not just.. you know, a 30 debuff display cap? Either way, how many SMN are you expecting to bring anyway? 24 is just three parties.. You don't need more than one SMN per group honestly, no one does, though that applies to most Jobs in a lot of cases.

it's not a display error, it's actually a limit

and this isn't just summoner

tanks put up 2-3 debuffs, melees put up 3-4, bards another 2, blm 1, summoner 5-6

summoner's have it worst, but 30 debuff slots into 24 people means every class but black mage is performing sub-par

which means to have the best chance at killing things, you tell your dragoons and monks and summoner to come as black mage today, or sit out

[Krisan]

it's not a display error, it's actually a limit

and this isn't just summoner

tanks put up 2-3 debuffs, melees put up 3-4, bards another 2, blm 1, summoner 5-6

summoner's have it worst, but 30 debuff slots into 24 people means every class but black mage is performing sub-par

which means to have the best chance at killing things, you tell your dragoons and monks and summoner to come as black mage today, or sit out

Bio, Bio 2, Miasma, Miasma 2 (sometimes, it's radial and requires going in, also is one of our shorter debuffs so it's not always worth it), Virus doesn't do damage and doesn't last very long regardless so ignore that one.. so yeah, roughly 18 debuffs at any one time if there's 1 SMN per group. BLM and BRD should be able to stack their debuffs in the remainder - if there's three BLM that's about 21 debuffs, that leaves 9 for BRD's and misc - the other jobs aren't as vitally needing to stack debuffs (nor are they likely to pop them in the first few seconds, meaning they shouldn't interfere with the cap). This also assumes you have 3 SMN's at all, you might not, you might just bring two, or even just one. It's not that big a deal, it just requires people to actually pay attention and let the SMN's do their job first, rather than spam skills ASAP for the sake of spamming them. (SMN DoT stacks do tons of damage, there's no reason at all not to let them take priority after the tank initiates)

Also.. our DoT's refresh upon recasting em, as long as we keep them up, they shouldn't get pushed off the list. (Not to mention we can spread all our debuffs to every nearby target, we'll virtually always have our stuff up on SOMETHING)