Summoners useless in 24mans?

[Hyrist]

Again, and I must stress this. I want to see evidence of the accusation that the 30 Debuff limit is not a display limitation. So far, I have seen none provided and this entire scare is done off of stipulation that's not even factually there.

In parties, when viewing the party list, it is possible to see that buffs/debuffs exist on the player that are not shown in the party list due to display limitations. Clicking on the character individually indicates that the buffs are actually there and simply not displayed due to prioritizing.

Once the adjustments in which the debuffs you provide are prioritized at the beginning of the list come into effect we can start factually verifying if this is actually a concern or not, as we will get a visiual indication on whether or not our particular debuffs are being prematurely canceled or outright prevented due to an actual cap of number of debuffs.

A more factual problem, which is more of a design issue, is the concept of monsters being mass damaged by too many spike damage sources for DoT skills to deal the full of their damage, which would effect SMN's usefulness due to not being a short-term burst class - however this has more to do with encounter design, not system mechanics.

[BeserkFury]

Again, and I must stress this. I want to see evidence of the accusation that the 30 Debuff limit is not a display limitation. So far, I have seen none provided and this entire scare is done off of stipulation that's not even factually there.

You want evidence? go fight Odin, even while playing Dragoon I have an immense amount of difficulty stacking my debuff effects, I know they are not applying because otherwise disembowel would be giving me extra damage on my attacks but the debuff gets cancelled from the 30 effect limit, you have a level 50 dragoon yourself by the looks of it so go try it out

[Hyrist]

You want evidence? go fight Odin,-SNIP-

Hm. There's a problem with this theory. Positioning in any major fate is a problem, and the explanation on your additional damage can be simply that you're out of position and your game has not caught up due to lag or simply not having him visible. Additionally, you are not the only Dragoon on the field. Disembowel could have been applied before you even engaged, meaning you were always operating at the additional damage and your personal disembowel has been overlapped by someone else's.

Testing this as it specifically applies to the argued concept, the effectiveness of a Summoner - in which case the update will properly apply any testing we may be concerned within the subject in question and a more controlled environment.

[Eight]

I did not know this I was wondering why my stuff wasn't doing anything on Svara from time to time the last two days during fates.

[Hyrist]

I did not know this I was wondering why my stuff wasn't doing anything on Svara from time to time the last two days during fates.

Again, I'm disputing this as a display issue, not an actual cap issue. We have examples of display issues in the party system. So far the only attempted evidence provided on this concern was Disembowel - a debuff in which only one instance of it can exist on the monster at a time anyways and can be quickly and constantly overwritten by subsequent dragoons.

In the coming patch, they are organizing it so that your own debuffs will always be listed to the furthest left on the existing Debuff list. After this point, we can test it in a popular NM fate and properly affirm/debunk this speculated issue.

[Jynx]

Again, I'm disputing this as a display issue, not an actual cap issue.

People have said it multiple times in this exact thread.

It's not a display issue or Summoners would be able to use Fester unhindered in single target FATES. Svarra for example often hits the debuff cap rather quickly if you put your 3 DoT's up and use Fester

(This abillity deals damage depending on what DoT stacks you have up)

You will often do 0 damage and get a "NO EFFECT" pop up because your debuffs have been overwritten. It's 100% not a display issue it's a downright cap.

[Hyrist]

People have said it multiple times in this exact thread.

It's not a display issue or Summoners would be able to use Fester unhindered in single target FATES. Svarra for example often hits the debuff cap rather quickly if you put your 3 DoT's up and use Fester

(This abillity deals damage depending on what DoT stacks you have up)

You will often do 0 damage and get a "NO EFFECT" pop up because your debuffs have been overwritten. It's 100% not a display issue it's a downright cap.

I have a Summoner on my primary Balmung character and I've yet to encounter this issue personally. I'll try it out.

It is a genuine issue and if nothing is done about it before CT we are going to see all debuff-heavy jobs excluded from content.

Encounter design can solve for that problem before mechanic design can, and I honestly feel that should be the priority focus for Crystal Tower. There are issues of focused targets dying too fast for DoT classes to begin with in argument all over MMO's and the primarily issue has little to do with debuff limits, but rather encounter design. I certainly hope we do not have 24 man single target encounters as our primary pastime, regardless of the current debuff cap issue.

However, we're presuming that all 24 members present will be focused on a singular target or same group of targets, or if the enemies in Crystal Tower follow the same mechanical rules as FATE monsters do.

We make great assumptions on everything and then when it turns out to be not even close to what the initial expectation was, we cry for different reasons anyways. Crystal Tower is Duty Finder content, so nobodys going to be picking or choosing anything unless they drop at the sight of a Summoner, which will be their loss, not the Summoners. Complaining about the problem currently in FATES as described would be a better course than presuming the class is defunct in unreleased content, as addressing one would solve the other hopefully anyways.

[Alberel]

Again, and I must stress this. I want to see evidence of the accusation that the 30 Debuff limit is not a display limitation. So far, I have seen none provided and this entire scare is done off of stipulation that's not even factually there.

Any SMN that has done any of the larger FATEs can confirm that this is a genuine issue. Once 30 effects are stacked on the target any further debuffs or DOTs will give the 'no effect' message unless you already have a debuff 'slot' claimed that you can overwrite. I can cast all my DOTs in sequence and follow up with a Fester for 0 damage because every single one of them bounced off the 30 debuff limit.

It is a genuine issue and if nothing is done about it before CT we are going to see all debuff-heavy jobs excluded from content.