Summoners useless in 24mans?

[Mythrellas]

BUMP, because fix it please =/.

[Inosaska]

I and many others were criticized by so many people for saying that Summoner needs an overhaul and yet now it only comes to light with why I and others dropped the class at level 47(Others earlier or at 50) because we saw this issue before everyone else and noticed the big flaw in the cap and that will completely kill the Summoners DPS. So when is the Summoner class overhaul coming so that everything is focused on the summons instead of the Summoner.

[shinros]

I and many others were criticized by so many people for saying that Summoner needs an overhaul and yet now it only comes to light with why I and others dropped the class at level 47(Others earlier or at 50) because we saw this issue before everyone else and noticed the big flaw in the cap and that will completely kill the Summoners DPS. So when is the Summoner class overhaul coming so that everything is focused on the summons instead of the Summoner.

Yup I agree but thats for another topic.

Oh Hyrist but it is an issue and depending on how they design the content most likely the three 3 groups will meet up for a boss and In my opinion debuff caps have been the bane of many dot classes in other mmo's. Back in the day people did not want warlocks in groups because of the debuff cap. Square just this please before or on release on the patch.

[Hyrist]

-snip-

Except:

1. There has been no proof presented of the debuff cap to begin with. It's being surmised visiually only as there is no accurate parser usage regarding DoTs.
2. There are MASSIVE presumptions being made that all Crystal Tower is, is a zerg.
4. There is absolutely zero consideration for adds in this circumstance. Bane hits all targets in range, making a Summoner's damage scale exponentially the larger the crowd becomes. A Debuff cap isn't going to matter in circumstances such as these because you're going to hit targets not capped.


There are typically squads of 3-5 monsters in an average dungeon engagement of 4 members. I can't speak for 8 member dungeons.

There are two methods of enemy scaling in this case, strength of monster, and number of monsters. Both will likely be utilized.

Giving a generous estimate of a large scale battle consisting of 10 monsters, there would need to be over 300 debuffs used total to eliminate a Summoners DoT usefulness. This is completely ignoring that they have a field DoT, pets, and direct damage skills.

It's feasibly impossible to eliminate their usefulness. Instead, their playstyle has to accommodate their contrasted playstyle to that of burst casters, meaning they attack off-focus targets, not primary targets.

And this is still all assuming there is a DoT cap, and that the 30 debuff limit simply isn't a display limitation.

[Kevee]

snip

While I have no proof, I know there is a debuff cap. I don't know the exact number. I don't know how people got this "30" number, all I know is that there is a hard cap.

1) See:

This is an issue I have been posting about for awhile.

Original thread which they moved/closed: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ially-24-mans.


New thread with a GM saying to post it "Here" but with no link attached: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-mob-can-have.

Summoner has an attack called "Fester" that, with each DoT of Bio/Bio II/Miasma present adds 100 potency. If you go to a big FATE like Odin or Behemoth, cast Bio/Bio II/Miasma and cast Fester. You will get "Fester has no effect." I have also seen it on Svara. Basically, any FATE boss with a lot of people attacking it.



2) It doesn't matter if the whole instance is 24 man or not. Some of it will be, guaranteed, otherwise why make it a 24-man instance? Any time there are 24 people, you may hit this debuff cap. That renders quite a few jobs useless.

4) Bane can only spread to 3 targets, so 4 targets total from Bane. Not to mention bane does nothing if DoTs are not already present.


3) Summoner is a DPS just like BLM, DRG, BRD, etc. It should be able to functionally attack the same targets. Even though DRG/BRD/MNK can't really functionally attack the target if they can't accept any more debuffs..

[DistraughtKoala]

Bane hits all targets in range, making a Summoner's damage scale exponentially the larger the crowd becomes. A Debuff cap isn't going to matter in circumstances such as these because you're going to hit targets not capped.

How much of an area do you think Bane covers? I've never had an instance of bane hitting all the spiders of wave 1 of turn four even once.

[Spellbinder]

Bane hits all targets in range, making a Summoner's damage scale exponentially the larger the crowd becomes. A Debuff cap isn't going to matter in circumstances such as these because you're going to hit targets not capped.

As mentioned previously, this is false. Bane will only spread to a maximum of three enemies, allowing a Summoner to hit four enemies in total. Need proof? Refer to my feedback thread in the DPS forum. A Japanese player reported this as a bug, and it was moved to the working as intended section the same day. If you ask me, I think its poor design, among the many other problems the job has.

[Menubrea]

I remember this all to well back when Aion was released. I played a Spirit Master, or whatever the pet class was called. It was absolutely impossible for me to get any sort of contribution on these world events because of this stupid and thoughtless design decision.

Remove it.

[Viscara]

I remember when WoW had a ridiculously low debuff limit and warriors weren't allowed to spec into deep wounds, rogues couldn't use poisons or Barman Shanker, and Blizzard acknowledged it was retarded and removed it... EIGHT YEARS AGO. How the heck is this sort of thing still around?

Shadowflare is actually showed up as a "buff" on the Summoner. Not as a debuff on the mob, so Shadowflare is safe from the cap.

The Slow it can proc I believe shows as a debuff though.

[Yamimarik]

The Slow it can proc I believe shows as a debuff though.

Ahh yeah the slow my B, I wasn't even thinking even though I read it in that person post, sorry ; ;