Summoners useless in 24mans?

[BeserkFury]

Again, and I must stress this. I want to see evidence of the accusation that the 30 Debuff limit is not a display limitation. So far, I have seen none provided and this entire scare is done off of stipulation that's not even factually there.

You want evidence? go fight Odin, even while playing Dragoon I have an immense amount of difficulty stacking my debuff effects, I know they are not applying because otherwise disembowel would be giving me extra damage on my attacks but the debuff gets cancelled from the 30 effect limit, you have a level 50 dragoon yourself by the looks of it so go try it out

[Hyrist]

You want evidence? go fight Odin,-SNIP-

Hm. There's a problem with this theory. Positioning in any major fate is a problem, and the explanation on your additional damage can be simply that you're out of position and your game has not caught up due to lag or simply not having him visible. Additionally, you are not the only Dragoon on the field. Disembowel could have been applied before you even engaged, meaning you were always operating at the additional damage and your personal disembowel has been overlapped by someone else's.

Testing this as it specifically applies to the argued concept, the effectiveness of a Summoner - in which case the update will properly apply any testing we may be concerned within the subject in question and a more controlled environment.

[Eight]

I did not know this I was wondering why my stuff wasn't doing anything on Svara from time to time the last two days during fates.

[Hyrist]

I did not know this I was wondering why my stuff wasn't doing anything on Svara from time to time the last two days during fates.

Again, I'm disputing this as a display issue, not an actual cap issue. We have examples of display issues in the party system. So far the only attempted evidence provided on this concern was Disembowel - a debuff in which only one instance of it can exist on the monster at a time anyways and can be quickly and constantly overwritten by subsequent dragoons.

In the coming patch, they are organizing it so that your own debuffs will always be listed to the furthest left on the existing Debuff list. After this point, we can test it in a popular NM fate and properly affirm/debunk this speculated issue.

[Alberel]

Again, and I must stress this. I want to see evidence of the accusation that the 30 Debuff limit is not a display limitation. So far, I have seen none provided and this entire scare is done off of stipulation that's not even factually there.

Any SMN that has done any of the larger FATEs can confirm that this is a genuine issue. Once 30 effects are stacked on the target any further debuffs or DOTs will give the 'no effect' message unless you already have a debuff 'slot' claimed that you can overwrite. I can cast all my DOTs in sequence and follow up with a Fester for 0 damage because every single one of them bounced off the 30 debuff limit.

It is a genuine issue and if nothing is done about it before CT we are going to see all debuff-heavy jobs excluded from content.

[devilzpawn]

Maybe the scenario is that, there will be one boss, and at points spawn multiple adds. so smn will prob keep dots on main while the rest will deal with the adds. (plus player deaths adding to what a sub-healing duties, etc) I doubt every player which has some sort of dot will be applying to main boss 100% of the time besides at near death. I imagine there will be at most two teams on the boss and one on adds or vise-versa, who knows, if I knew the future like so many people on these forums I would be rich.

[Naunet]

Maybe the scenario is that, there will be one boss, and at points spawn multiple adds. so smn will prob keep dots on main while the rest will deal with the adds. (plus player deaths adding to what a sub-healing duties, etc) I doubt every player which has some sort of dot will be applying to main boss 100% of the time besides at near death. I imagine there will be at most two teams on the boss and one on adds or vise-versa, who knows, if I knew the future like so many people on these forums I would be rich.

If every fight were a "kill boss, deal with adds" fight, that would get old, fast. Raids tend to have a variety of encounters, including - yes - burn-a-single-target-as-fast-as-you-(in)humanly-can fights. The likelihood of the 30 debuff limit becoming a problem in a 24 man raid is extremely high.

[devilzpawn]

If every fight were a "kill boss, deal with adds" fight, that would get old, fast. Raids tend to have a variety of encounters, including - yes - burn-a-single-target-as-fast-as-you-(in)humanly-can fights. The likelihood of the 30 debuff limit becoming a problem in a 24 man raid is extremely high.

You may be right in the situation. Maybe it will be like dynamis (just a guess since there will be 24 people in one instance, and they all need something to do). I guess time will tell.

[SummonerSenah]

I've had this issue come up in big Fates like Svara and Lazy Laurence. But even despite not being able to lay down dots and fester, I've still come out with Gold in those cases, and usually I wasn't even in a party. (I have more baby buns than I know what to do with!) If you're not dealing damage, Arcanist/summoner is a good second healer.

That said, I do think the cap is a bad idea, though. Wouldn't mind seeing it lifted.

[Sirfoxeh]

If you haven't played crystal tower yet I wouldn't start coming up with things to worry about mechanic wise....