BRD Cooldown sequence?

[gotaplanstan]

There are really two ways to go about this.

DoTs immediately with IR to maximize bloodletter immediately.
Optimal stacking of cooldowns (and maximum dot damage) by reapplying dots after stacking.


DoTs immediately would follow this opener, | means weave inbetween GCD

[SS | IR] -> [Wind | BL] -> [Veno | HE] -> [HS | RS] -> [HS | BfB] -> [HS | Barrage] -> [HS | Quelling] -> rotation.

Optimal cooldown stacking would delay IR till right before quelling, like this, then reapply dots right during this.

[SS | BL] -> [Wind | HE] -> [Veno | RS] -> [HS | BfB] -> [HS | IV] -> [Wind | Barrage] -> [Veno | Quelling] -> rotation.

I prefer the latter, because its what I'm used to.

Wouldn't it make more sense to open with HS instead of SS incase the first HS procs Heavier Shot? That's how I've been doing it. You're only missing out on probably 1 tick worth of crit chance from WB and 0 or 1 from VB anyways, I think.

[pandabearcat]

Wouldn't it make more sense to open with HS instead of SS incase the first HS procs Heavier Shot? That's how I've been doing it. You're only missing out on probably 1 tick worth of crit chance from WB and 0 or 1 from VB anyways, I think.

no? Because you miss out on the 10% crit buff for 1 GCD anyway.

Think about it this way: Do you never SS unless you have HS proc? If the answer is no, then it makes no sense to open with HS.

[KaiSunstrider]

Here's a basic bard guide. It's my first and i realize there are preferences on how you handles buff usage, i try my best to weave, but i feel that only at the pull does this ever really become an issue of min maxing.

http://forum.xivnation.com/index.php...slinging.2253/

[gotaplanstan]

Do you never SS unless you have HS proc? If the answer is no, then it makes no sense to open with HS.

that's not what I said was it? let's do some math shall we?

your way:

ss = 140 potency
wb = 45 potency (1 tick)
bl = 150 potency
vb = 35 potency (1 tick)
hs = 150 potency

since I was generous giving a tick worth of dmg for vb I'll be conservative and say that you'll only have 30% crit chance due to ss and ir for wb/vb tick crit to proc bl

bl = 150 potency

30% of 150 is 45, but it only happens 50% of the time on crits, or 15% of the time...but with the example we assumed 2 ticks, which gives a 27.45% chance of proccing...

so total you're looking at an average of 41.175 which gives a total average of 561.175 potency doing things your way

--------------
my way:

hs = 150 potency
wb = 45 potency
bl = 150 potency
vb = 35 potency
ss = 182 potency (((140 * 1.5) * 0.2) + 140)

total potency = 562

[pandabearcat]

snip

Your way is flawed, because you fail to acknowledge your actual crit rate increases with SS.

Assuming a 15% base crit (which is around 500 crit rating)

Your way

HS - 150*(.15*1.5 + .85) = 161.25
SS - 140*(.2*1.5 + .8*(.15*1.5+.85)) = 162.4
WB (and 1 tick) - 105*(.25*1.5 + .75) = 118.125
VB - 100*(.25*1.5 + .75) = 112.5

Total = 554.275

Orig way

SS - 140*(.15*1.5 + .85) = 150.5
WB - and 2 ticks, 150*(.25*1.5 + .75) = 168.75
VB - 1 tick, 135*(.25*1.5 + .75) = 151.875
HS - 150 * (.25*1.5 + .75) = 168.75

Total = 639.875

So...yea. Not to mention, with IR, its skewed even more towards getting SS and dots up first instead of delaying 2.5 seconds.

Also, thats not even mentioning the extra tick of possible bloodletter reset chance.

Also, you have to delay bloodletter in your scenario in order to take advantage of IR and SS.

EDIT: Furthermore, your formula for SS (((140 * 1.5) * 0.2) + 140) is wrong, as you don't have a .2 chance of crit, and then a 1.0 chance of "normal", you have a .2 chance of crit, and a .8 chance of normal. Aka it would look like (((140 * 1.5) * 0.2) + 140*.8), which is even lower than my way of accounting for base crit.

[gotaplanstan]

snip

your edit is correct, unfortunately that's kind of irrelevant

for 1, your estimation that wb will tick two times is wrong, if you look at the timing on the sequence you're using as an example it would look like this:

ss = 0.0s
wb = 2.5s
vb = 5.0s
hs = 7.5s

last I checked, 5 =/= 6, and last I checked dots tick every 3s, so there's no possible way for a second tick to occur

that means your wb damage is cut in half, to 84.375, as well as your total, which gives us 555.5

but wait, we just realized that 5 =/= 6, so I think it's safe to say 2.5 =/= 3 as well yes? so that gives us zero VB ticks in the proposed sequence

that reduces the total potency from 555.5 to 403.625

[pandabearcat]

that reduces the total potency from 555.5 to 403.625

Because DoTs are on the global timer, you have no clue when your dot is actually going to apply.

It doesn't automagically start counting 3 seconds after you apply a DoT.

Realistically...lets look at the timer.

[0.0 sec] - SS
[~1.0 sec] - SS applies
[2.5 sec] - Cast WB
[~3.5 sec] - WB applies
[5.0 sec] - Cast VB
[~6.0 sec] - VB applies
[7.5 sec] - Cast HS
[10.0 sec] - End of HS GCD

So...the time between WB application (~3.5 sec) and end of HS (10.0 sec) is at least 6.5 seconds, which means it is guaranteed that there are 2 ticks, maybe even 3. So I am doing the actual, MINIMUM # of ticks possible, rather than Maximum, and certainly not "impossible".

Between VB (~6.0 sec) and end of HS GCD (10.0 sec) is 4 seconds, again guaranteeing 1 tick, and maximum 2 ticks.

Notice I also took into account animation delay (the ~1 second) in case we are being that nitpicky about DoT timings.

Furthermore, if you're going to subtract ticks from my argument, you must also do the same for yours. So...please. Pay attention here. We're not enemies lol, but again, I wanted to restate why your method doesn't work.

Because as I said in my first post, if you are doing this at the beginning of the fight, you must also justify using it in the middle of a fight, when SS is falling off and also your dots. This DOES happen, purely based on positioning of SS procs.

So when theres 1 second left on SS, WS, and VS, do you apply SS? Or do you do HS->SS for a proc?

In order for your way to make any sense you need to do the math on:

HS->SS->WB->BL->VB
vs
SS->WB->BL->VB->HS

Delaying the dots by an extra global for a potential Straighter Shot proc vs not delaying dots. I think you'll find that getting dots up faster is a no brainer.

Exactly, and this is precisely what I compare to here. Also note you need to compare till the end of the last GCD, because you're not doing 4 actions in 7.5 seconds, you're doing it in 10. I do ignore BL though because it is the same damage for both. Though, again, earlier dots mean more chances for River of Blood, which would push the "standard" rotation even more ahead.

EDIT: also your math is just wrong >.> Losing 1 tick each for WS and VS, totals 80 potency, and with 25% chance to crit is still only losing 90 potency. I'm not sure how I suddenly lost a whopping 240 or so potency. I think you were factoring in the base damage into their DoT tick totals, which is simply not correct.

EDIT2: using your rotation, here are the timings

[0.0 sec] - HS
[2.5 sec] - SS
[~3.5 sec] - SS applies
[5.0 sec] - WB
[~6.0 sec] - WB applies
[7.5 sec] - VB
[~8.5 sec] - VB applies
[10.0 sec] - end of VB GCD

As you can see you can only guarantee one tick for WB, 2 ticks max, and 0 ticks for VB, 1 tick max.

So I am giving both rotations equal treatment.

[gotaplanstan]

No offense but unless you can provide proof that dots function the way you're describing, it's safer for me (and everybody else) to assume that it's not accurate.

[Bardo]

my way:

hs = 150 potency
wb = 45 potency
bl = 150 potency
vb = 35 potency
ss = 182 potency (((140 * 1.5) * 0.2) + 140)

You can't just look at 1 tick because dots "snapshot" the buffs you have up when you apply them. If you apply them and then apply straight shot later, the entire duration loses out on 10% crit chance. It does not update for each tick individually.
You ALWAYS want SS buff up before applying dots (and IR as well as much as humanly possible).

In order for your way to make any sense you need to do the math on:

HS->SS->WB->BL->VB
vs
SS->WB->BL->VB->HS

Delaying the dots by an extra global for a potential Straighter Shot proc vs not delaying dots. I think you'll find that getting dots up faster is a no brainer.