BRD Cooldown sequence?

[LLamaPie]

Since they're off GCD, I make sure all of my dots are up and use my blood letter with straight shot up before I start cycling my DPS CDs, so basically once you enter sustain spam mode you turn them on when your GCD is going (between heavy shots most likely) and yes spam your bloodletters in there too. I noticed this blows stuff to hell the fastest and uses the buffs the best.

[gotaplanstan]

snip

That's correct. And further expanding on my idea of reversing the SS/HS opening order, I did some parser testing over the last 3 days on mlvl 50 dummies and found the best rotation (including opening) over 3 minute periods to actually start with HS and SS as the first two skills. I was as shocked as you probably are, that delaying getting WB and VB up didn't have long term (boss fight wise) effects of a negative nature. But in the end, the best rotation I could find for said duration basically was such because of having 100% cd uptime on all but IR during the first Barrage duration. And the 2nd and 3rd cycles of certain cds also aligned such that there were never less than 2 active during their 2nd/3rd activations.

Now obviously quite a few fights are longer than 3 minutes, but since the longest cd timer on any of them is also that duration, that's why I chose to test that way.

[pandabearcat]

found the best rotation (including opening) over 3 minute periods to actually start with HS and SS as the first two skills.

I wouldn't put much faith in that kind of testing, because the damage difference is 150 or so potency over the course of 3 minutes, the total potency of which is at least in the 20k area, not including autoattacks or cooldowns. It is a 0.8% damage change max, and that is pretty impossible to see during testing.

What you are seeing is more likely natural variation in proc differences, etc.

The math proves you wrong.

[EasymodeX]

I've only skimmed through the 'analysis', but it occurs to me that there's only a few relevant factors to consider:

1. You want buffs up when you DOT.
2. You want to allow the option to re-apply your DOTs with the buffs still up / before they expire.

The whole discussion centering on how awesome/not awesome the 20% chance of a SS autocrit seems moot when you should be considering how badly you want the DOTs up early so you can clip them less later -- or if that even matters much (which it may not).

At a minimum you want IR up before applying the first set of DOTs, and you want to re-apply them before IR expires. That basically bounds your "FIRST 30 SECONDS" discussion.

The only thing you want up before your DOTs is SS. So at a minimum you want:
SS - IR
WB
VB
[....]
WB
VB - IR_expires

You basically have 4* GCDs in between the DOT sets may not be sufficient to get all your relevant buffs up as well as throw down the fire AOE before for the second DOT set. You'll generally want to burn 1 BL early, and may get a proc for another, or two. The net result is that you have a lot of OGCDs to burn in the first 20-odd seconds and you may not have enough GCDs between which to actually use them.

Starting off with an HS could be useful simply to give enough time to get all your buffs up.


* Probably 5 GCDs of attacks if you have >0 skill speed by any measurable degree.

[pandabearcat]

What you say is true, however, there are other factors here.

Of the two rotations I mentioned (not the HS one, I mean the to IR or not to IR one), the main difference is...

More cooldown stacking in way 2 (no IR for first DoTs) vs IR for first dots + possible BL procs.

I haven't had time to figure out which one is better, also keep in mind BL procs push back your CD's, further complicating how well you can stack them.

Granted stacking them does not really matter, except for having them all up for all of Barrage.

Is losing IR for barrage worth having IR up for 3 more ticks of DoTs/BL? Someone will have to check if so. Again the difference is small, but obviously as we're trying to optimize it is a point to consider.

I prefer the second simply because since it is easier to stack cooldowns, and all of them are up for Barrage.

Furthermore with the first rotation, I don't know if it is worth the wasted GCDs (which could be HS) to reapply dots as IR expires.

[EasymodeX]

Furthermore with the first rotation, I don't know if it is worth the wasted GCDs (which could be HS) to reapply dots as IR expires.

On that topic, the benefit of using HS within the IR+BFB timeframe is 2x 150*(.5*.2) + 2x 150*.2 = 30 + 60 = 90p. In the alternate scenario, you'd just use the same two HSs a few GCDs later, so you're only gaining the benefit of the buffs on HS. The 20% chance to crit on the two HSs also increases the chance for an autocrit SS. The maximum value for this is roughly 0.5*140*1.2 = 84 and this scenario grants a (1-.8*.8)*.75 = 27% chance for the event, so 84 * .27 = 23 potency.

In the alternate scenario, you clip roughly 2 ticks of each DOT in a worst-case, meaning you get a clip cost of (35*2) * (1+.5*.45) + (45*2)*(1+.5*.45)*1.2 = 216 potency, although it could be less due to the server timing on DOTs.


Total costs (max): 90 + 23 + 216 = 329


The benefit is that you get IR applied to both the next WB/VB and 1 additional buff [BFB] applied to one.

The IR is worth roughly: (640)*.2*.5*1.2*1.2 = 92

The BFB is worth roughly: (310)*(1+.5*.45))*1.2 = 91

You gain the additional benefit of 20% crit for BL procs, which equates to vaguely:

12 opportunities of 45% chance to crit with a 50% result of +150 base potency
minus
12 opportunities of 25% chance to crit with the same result

Let's call the BLs 150/2 * (1.2)*(1+.5*.25) = 101

The alternate scenario BL application is 12 * .45 * 101 minus the null scenario BL at 12 * .25 * 101. So 242 more BL damage.

Total benefits (max): 92 + 91 + 242 = 425

Note: the actual benefit will be less than 425 because you don't get the true benefit of more BL procs because BLs are generally restricted to 1 per OGCD.

Still, I think it's a good case for re-applying the DOTs prior to the IR expiration.

[Jayded]

On my OP bard I do Quelling > Hawk's eye > Skill > Raging Strikes > Skill > Blood for Blood > Skill > Internal Release > Skill > Barrage

[pandabearcat]

You don't seem to understand the concept of GCD.

Lets do an extremely simple case.

1 attack, we use HS.

How much dps does the HS do?

Furthermore, at 7.5 seconds, the last HS does 0 damage. Similarly, the last VB doesn't actually apply or do damage. Are you going to count that against the standard rotation too?

If you've ever actually played a Bard, you know HS hits somewhere between 1 second and 2 seconds after you actually hit the button.

So whats it going to be? Are you going to cut off at arbitrary start of actions, or are you going to cut off at precisely when HS hits and nothing else (at around 8.5-9.5 seconds) to be "fair", or are you going to actually go by the amount of GCDs consumed?

Actually you know what, too many questions for you to answer.

Just answer me this.

What is the pps of 1 attack, 1 HS, and how do you calculate it.

We can get into the other discussions later. I'm sorry I mislabeled my list, I'll go and fix it. This clearly implies an inability for doing math.

As for the crit calculations, you can go here: http://valk.dancing-mad.com/?page_id...riticalHitRate

[gotaplanstan]

snip

I'm not the one having trouble understanding that if played properly, 4 skills will have been used in ~7.5 seconds. There's not much as this point that I (or anyone else) can seem to say to help you grasp this BASIC concept of how this game works.

As far as you thinking there's a delay, there's not. Not technically. The damage is applied instantly, and just because it takes a second to register in the floating #'s does not change that fact.

It seems there's quite a few things game mechanics wise that you simply don't understand. So I'm a bit confused why you're coming here acting like a know-it-all when you don't even understand such simple concepts.

[gotaplanstan]

(sorry for triple post, but 2nd one couldn't fit this info in it XD)
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As you can see, the only cd not 100% active for Barrage's first duration is IR, and it still has 75% uptime during it. After that BfB and HE both pair of up with Barrage's second cycle, while RS's 2nd and IR's 3rd pair up with QS's 2nd as well.

That was what I had the best parser results with. I tried 7 different combinations, including ones discussed ITT and this one came out in the lead. I can only assume because of the cd uptimes during both Barrages.