Idea for Warriors

[Jediman]

If WARRIOR are TANK why do they suck high end duty finder (I handy see any...) then comparing to all final fantasy games.

Whitemage and Scholar

you will find out WHM are better at healing high end compare to scholar.

[Rios-Drakoon]

If WARRIOR are TANK why do they suck high end duty finder (I handy see any...) then comparing to all final fantasy games.

Whitemage and Scholar

you will find out WHM are better at healing high end compare to scholar.

Paladin is a tank who reduce incoming dmg (thats what he does)
Warrior is a Tank who conter incoming dmg with Selfheal (thats what it should be, but our selfheal sucks, Blame SE for that)

And what you mean with "Comparing all FF games?"

FFXI Warrior was Tank, then Ninja and Paladin get in game with Addons, Warrior could Switch to DD then.

In FFXIV there is no switching between DD or Tank.

Pls, read the skills from Warrior, then you see, he has alot Tank abilities.


Because SE did a bad work, Warrior are underpowerd, thats why alot "Ex-Warrior" reroll on Paladin now.

And about WHM and SCH, WHM maybee can make the bigger heals, SCH has Absorbshields and thats also pretty nice.

[Jediman]

Paladin is a tank who reduce incoming dmg (thats what he does)
Warrior is a Tank who conter incoming dmg with Selfheal (thats what it should be, but our selfheal sucks, Blame SE for that)
And what you mean with "Comparing all FF games?"

FFXI Warrior was Tank, then Ninja and Paladin get in game with Addons, Warrior could Switch to DD then.

In FFXIV there is no switching between DD or Tank.

Pls, read the skills from Warrior, then you see, he has alot Tank abilities.

Because SE did a bad work, Warrior are underpowerd, thats why alot "Ex-Warrior" reroll on Paladin now.

And about WHM and SCH, WHM maybee can make the bigger heals, SCH has Absorbshields and thats also pretty nice.

"FFXI Warrior was Tank, then Ninja and Paladin get in game with Addons, Warrior could Switch to DD then."
You will find that war is a Dps in final fantasy XI and I understand that it has tank traits but what SE needs to do is scarp that turn it to a dps because thats what it is.

This is reminding me of Dark knight in Final fantasy XI

[Rios-Drakoon]

like i said, in FFXI you could Change. in FFXIV you CAN NOT Change.

Warrior is a Tank, even his AF armor is a Tank armor, his first Abilitie with lvl30 was Tank Stance. and so on and so on...

I know, you and alot other Paladin would like to be the only and only one Tank Class.


Sorry to disapoint you, Warrior is a Tank class, and til Garuda HM no Problem, once you hit Titan HM, then a Paladin is alot better as Tank then Warrior. but like i said, Warrior and Paladin are not balanced, the Gap is way to big.
SE should (and im pretty sure, they will) Buff Warrior.
Even if Yoshi said something like "L2P", he cant say "yes guys, we will Buff Warrior soon"... if he did, alot Paladin would get "inrage" in Forum, and flame.

[Shurrikhan]

Clever timing on Inner Beast can actually keep you alive for a surprisingly long time, often enough to stay alive as an unhealed OT or finish the last of a fight MTing with all healers dead. This is not true of HM Primal fights, of course, but in those fights your bonus health is often the difference between nuke heals necessary and an already dead Paladin if he doesn't hit Sentinel / Rampart in time. I have no parsed data to show Warrior as being an equally good MT as Paladin, but that has been my experience. I've yet to see a Warrior unable to do, overall, what a Paladin can. I will fully admit to the difference in healing consumption though.

In either case though, I'll agree that any relatively flat value self-heals are going to become more and more useless as we reach higher level content. Each point of strength increases our Inner Beast healing by at most 9 points. Worthless.

To take an old example though, Aegis Boon (I'm pretty sure that was the name) from 1.x, that would actually see better use as mob damage increases because the healing increased with the value of damage mitigated by the guaranteed block on the next attack. Something like that might help quite a bit.

To use another WoW example: early Death Strike have healing based on Attack Power, similar enough to IB's damage-dealt dependency (which then includes our buffs and slashing resistance debuff), while later restored a portion of health lost in the last 3 seconds. For mob-grinding the later was at first nearly-worthless, but in incredibly hard-hitting fights it actually outdid the early version for healing done.

That's pretty much how this goes though. If something's being balanced through its conditionality, then your options are limited.

For example:
Scale by your HP - High Vit-stat dependency, and still does not protect you from bosses who special-hit for 80% of your health.
Scale by damage dealt - AP-dependency, requires you to build buffs and damage taken debuffs.
Scale by damage taken - worthless when taking little damage.

I'd recommend just building from an internal system that you find to be fun and warrior-like and then just seeing what you can do from there based on the spread in tool-frequency you want (Bloodbath, Inner Beast, Storm's Path, etc, etc).

In terms of specific suggestions:
- 3% (36+% total over half minute), 10%, and even 30% of hp are not going to make Warrior more viable MTs for the fights we're hard-pressed on. I'd like to see all of these be more useful, but switching to health-scaling doesn't necessarily improve our situation. Of course, anything more than this may be considered quite OP, since block values are fairly low, giving Paladin a 20% [Rampart], 30% [Sentinel], and >15% (probably closer to 10%) [Bulwark] damage reduction. So frankly I'm a bit stumped.

On just a personal preference, I'd prefer for these things to remain roughly damage-based but with improvements in the tanking position, allowing the Warrior to also function as a sort tank-ready self-sufficient-healing DPS. And that is mostly because that is what the job is portrayed as. There's plenty of suggestions that could go along with improving that niche, but that's for elsewhere.

A power comparison:
30% of a HM Titan's 5k blow would be around 1.5k, but is accessed only 1/18th of the time (10s per 180), and is unlikely to finish its cooldown at an ideal timing. Conversely, a 30% IB on a 7k Warrior would bring in 2.1k (about the same as the remaining *effective* health saved by Sentinel and Shield Oath) every 7-8 moves, or 17.5 to 20 seconds (+ a free extra such heal every minute). At that point already Warrior would basically outdo Paladin, minus the absolute save of Hallowed Ground.

I'm sorry to have wandered so much in my line of thought.

Conclusion:
All this might help, but it's really just a matter of scaling the healing to some level of effective health saved/refreshed similar to Paladin levels. Switching to health scaling reduces tanking use of all but Vitality and also isolates our Maim, Storm's Eye, Berserk, and Unchained abilities from our tanking tools. I can already self-heal for around 3k on a Berserk Inner Beast critical strike with Maim and Storm's Eye up. But losing those tools would reduce fine play possible for the class by taking away our means of preparation and emergency variation. I'd rather see our healing raised a different way.

Smaller points of preference:
- Bloodbath effect greatly increased, at least when under Defiance. I'd actually like to see the ability better integrated into all parts of the class, but 30 per 90 seconds of lowish self-healing isn't too bad; it just ought not be so pathetic outside of AoE spamming.
- Storm's Path roughly equal or greater in healing to the bonus healing granted by Storm's Eye over its duration (15s). I'd like that to be around ~200, but that would place self-healing from Bloodthirst over 15 seconds of single-target dps as around 2k, which is probably too high. Alternatively, Storm's Path could be used in favor of the main enmity string [Heavy, Skull, Butcher] (more often than every other (SE full-upkeep) or every third (Maim full-upkeep)), but then that should come at cost of enmity. If self-healing other than by spells generates threat, then a 300-hp heal would likely come quite close already to the bonus enmity provided by the enmity string.

I don't want to throw WoW into this again, but one thing that game has had over our jobs is that their classes often had much more intricate job/class mechanics (especially when spec-variance is included), such as through combo points, runes, etc, while Wrath, Umbral Ice/Astral Fire, and Stances often un-immediate and under-integrated. I feel like Warrior would be one of the best entries into a more job-unique system of tools, ability-layering, etc, as to improve general quality of gameplay from auto-attack, 1,2,3 auto-attack, and buff upkeep, if SE were ever willing.

[Rios-Drakoon]

your right, with my Ideas some abilities like Berserk and Co. would getting useless unless for Aggro Push. (i like to start Boss giht with "unchained and berserk" .. ok i have only Ifrit Axe, maybee with Relic ist not neccesary.

If SE would put a Buff on our Defiance Tank Stance, like "Selfhealing Increased by 300%" or something, with that i could life. and About Inner beast, sorry, i dont Count Crits, they are nice to have, but when you Need a Crit, you never get it xD

But i think we agree in onething, Our selfheal Need a Buff.