Restricting Weapon skills to original class.

[Mr_Gyactus]

I'm curious, for anyone against this thread's topic; If incapacitation and damage type were not an issue, would you then be in favor of having most/all/new weapon skills be restricted in order for the developers to have a manageable list of animations/effects an so said animations/effects could then be improved?

If incapacitation was not an issue, probably I was never using cross-class skills. The damage is lower (without affinity), cooldown higher...
i.e. I use leg sweep with every class because I don't have a formal substitute, or I need more stun's skills in my rotation.

If I'm tanking as marauder, I need taunt and provoke. If I'm tanking as gladiator, do I need taunt?

I can use some skill from conj if I'm thau, but does it really worth? less damage, cooldown... and both have direct spells and DOT spells.

[MeowyWowie]

****Also I think some people might be getting confused. This thread is only about limiting weapon skills, not all actions. Those not familiar with ffxi, a weapon skill would be considered any melee skill like Skull Sunder or Red Lotus Blade, or possibly even magic skills like Damnation and Radiance.

I have to agree with this. I think some people are getting confused with the difference between Weapon Skills and Abilities/Magic. Even if they restrict WS's to their parent weapons the system is still very customizable. To me, it just makes sense that Weapon Skills should be just that, Weapon Skills. Abilities and Magic should remain unchanged.

In the end, I think the new job system they're working on will take care of all this. Though I'm assuming they they might restrict WS's, Abilities and Magic with it, something many will not be too happy about. For example: Changing to Paladin will only let you equip staffs, swords and daggers for weapons; healing and buffing spells for magic; and enmity generation, defense/magic defense buffs for abilities.

I personally would accept this system, but I'm sure many will not. We'll see what happens.

[Karbine]

After the announcement of the new battle system being right around the corner, AND a new job system in the pipeline I am going to withhold my opinions and judgement on the current system. But I found nothing wrong with XI's job setup. Not to say they couldn't drastically tweak it but I really hope for some roles in PT based battles.

Making WS abilities more specialized for each class would be one way of doing this. Especially if they had effects like dispel, and weaken, or stun attached to them.

[kukurumei]

Well they would first have to overhaul the long overdo problem of most skills being exactly or close to the same.

It brings back the FF11 battle system argument that, at least they had the foresight of giving things like WS very specific properties so that people would tactically select between them.

The who idea of skill chains revolved around WS properties as much as damage and as much as types of weapons. Much more elegant then what we currently have in FF14.

[Physic]

Well they would first have to overhaul the long overdo problem of most skills being exactly or close to the same.

It brings back the FF11 battle system argument that, at least they had the foresight of giving things like WS very specific properties so that people would tactically select between them.


The who idea of skill chains revolved around WS properties as much as damage and as much as types of weapons. Much more elegant then what we currently have in FF14.

uhhh not really, only some jobs could do certain skill chains for a long time, and you usually only had one weapon skill that had good damage for any level, so if you used something else, you were sacrificing major damage
(i remember opening in a skill chain with one inch punch, when raging fist would have done more damage that the burst)

This weaponskill system, looks more boring since they reuse 99% of the animations, but you have various useful weapon skills, with different costs, and different uses, and you often use more than one type in a fight, its much more entertaining to me.

[kukurumei]

uhhh not really, only some jobs could do certain skill chains for a long time, and you usually only had one weapon skill that had good damage for any level, so if you used something else, you were sacrificing major damage
(i remember opening in a skill chain with one inch punch, when raging fist would have done more damage that the burst)

This weaponskill system, looks more boring since they reuse 99% of the animations, but you have various useful weapon skills, with different costs, and different uses, and you often use more than one type in a fight, its much more entertaining to me.

Not exactly. You have it backwards. Many weapon skills could interact differently, it was the choice of the player to choose.

The fact that NA's typically had the "crab problem" was also effected to "usual suspects" weapon skills (distortion). Same with light because xp parties needed light properties(as oppose to bah darkness!).

That didn't mean you couldn't go fighting dark weakness monsters or fusion monsters, or other elementally weak monsters.

Though hitting a lvl 2 teir WS made some skills more preferable, but then it depended on the party formation again. The whole point of WS was to tactically choose well, and separate roles and specializations (like how most melees end up with keeping 2 weapons near capped).

Basically "cookie cuttering" exceptions doesn't bring down the fact FF11 foresight into WS properties was many times more elegant then FF14's crap-tactular revision.

FF14's skill system seriously needs/being revision.

[Davorok]

Anyone who wants the Armory System to remain as it is has already lost this argument. They are changing it. Despite being unique and interesting in a sandbox mode kinda way, it was a dismal failure. It seems most people want more defined Class Roles and I think that is what we are getting.

I hope we still can cross-abilities (some anyway, I can't survive without Sacrifice 2)) but I always thought using an Axe Weapon Skill with a Bow is extremely silly.

Think about it...if a Pug is loaded up on Axe Weapon Skills and Abilities, it comes to a point where you're not a Pugilist anymore but rather a Marauder using Hand-to-Hand weapons.

Why bother having Class Names at all then? We are all just "Adventurers" using weapons and skills all willy-nilly so from now on I want to be called a "GladiMar PugLanConTurge".....or maybe just "Weapon Master"...but I really just want to be an Archer.

[Physic]

Anyone who wants the Armory System to remain as it is has already lost this argument. They are changing it. Despite being unique and interesting in a sandbox mode kinda way, it was a dismal failure. It seems most people want more defined Class Roles and I think that is what we are getting.

I hope we still can cross-abilities (some anyway, I can't survive without Sacrifice 2)) but I always thought using an Axe Weapon Skill with a Bow is extremely silly.

Think about it...if a Pug is loaded up on Axe Weapon Skills and Abilities, it comes to a point where you're not a Pugilist anymore but rather a Marauder using Hand-to-Hand weapons.

Why bother having Class Names at all then? We are all just "Adventurers" using weapons and skills all willy-nilly so from now on I want to be called a "GladiMar PugLanConTurge".....or maybe just "Weapon Master"...but I really just want to be an Archer.

thing to keep in mind is most of the weapon skills, arent particular to that weapon, like red lotus, is not called red lotus blade, it is just red lotus. The description of concussive blow is beat an enemiy about the head, doesnt require fists to do that.
Far as a marauder using hand to hand skills, really it is not the weapon skills that tend to define the class, it is usually the basic attacks. Pug is defined by heavy strike, flurry, light strike and pummel. light strike enhances defense and evasion, making them one of the best dodge charachters, and then they can make people pay with on evade moves. Flurry and heavy combine to make a pugilist able to deal a lot of blows fast. Its really that defines pug.
Anyhow they are going to make some changes, but i think they will probably keep the armory system mostly intact.

Honestly the thing they could best do to make battle more entertaining is add more unique looking weapon skills, and even abilities. they could do different motions for some of the skills.