perhaps we aren't using warrior properly?

[Jayrune]

What level of gear were the dev's using when they compare warrior to paladin? Full darklight with Relic? AF+1? regular AF?

If the war is really strong when geared i'd buy the statements made by Yoshi P, but what about when your doing the HM primals for the first time and are still using a few bits of AF? You can do that as a pally, company weapon, AF outfit, maybe the darklight belt, you can tank that, can a war say the same? can the devs really say the same in that gear? Yoshi's statement is far too vague.

A tanking class that doesn't become usable in a raid until after they get the gear from said raid is not a balanced class.

[Artamie]

I lustrate three times every 45ish seconds on my Scholar. The sheer difference in HP from the warrior compared to paladin makes healing that much easier when your best main tank heal is based on the tanks max health %.

Good point!

So from what I see so far the big things for warrior are:


-Lustrate which heals 20% of hp up to 3x per 45 sec

-Fey Light which "Increases skill speed of self and nearby party members by 30% for 30s" (60s cool-down). There's also one for spell speed the scholar can apply to themselves. It could be just me but I feel like I see more scholars using Eos as default which helps with survivability more so warriors probably don't get hit with it as much as they may have been intended?

-Wrath V under Defiance (-25% dmg output but also reduces damage received by 25%) (adding 10% crit and 15% heal potency) and gear for crit bonus

-Other stuff such as bloodbath, berserk, mantra, internal release, and second wind to improve potency of stuff above and boosting inner beast for occasional self-heal which can be followed up with an Infuriate to replenish the Wrath stack.

This is all purely speculation though. Can crit help offset the -25% damage reduction? Feel free to tear it apart!

Question: what is Unchained good for?

[Roaran]

Once again, warriors are just different. They require a different play style from the healers and the tank themselves. If you compare only on paper, you're going to miss the key strengths of the warrior job.

On paper, you have to make it as simple as possible. Warriors require 5% more healing, but have at least 25% more health. 95% of the time, that 5% more healing isn't really important... because it simply is not very dangerous or threatening. But, when you look at the points where it is very important, you have a skill that provides 1-2k HP instantly; and, which you can usually apply at such times back to back for up to 4k healing done in a pinch. Because in tanking endgame right now it is ALL about those critical short period of time where you face any danger at all. Utilizing these heals with the right timing can make it nearly impossible to kill you under most circumstances.

Warrior is a VERY strong tank in endgame, but most of you don't understand this because you haven't been there.

[CurlyBruce]

...

...

I quoted you both because both of you seem to not understand how effective HP works. Shield Oath and Defiance work out to providing the same effective HP pool. Defiance adds a flat 25% HP boost while Shield Oath lowers all damage taken by 20% meaning your HP is equivalent to 1/.8 = 1.25 > a 25% boost to effective HP. Stoneskin has the same effectiveness regardless of whether its on a WAR or a PLD because while a WARs stoneskin has a higher value, PLD's stoneskin will last longer since he is receiving less damage.

The problem with Inner Beast usage is you can only guarantee back to back usage every minute. Pretty much all high end bosses use their big hits more often than once a minute. Here is another problem, Thrill of Battle provides another 20% boost to your max HP and also heals it, so obviously I should use that after a big hit. Well Thrill of Battle increases effective HP by 20% and only lasts 10 seconds and has a 2 minute recast. Let's take a look at PLDs Rampart which they receive the enhanced version of at level 14. Enhanced Rampart reduces all damage taken by 20% and lasts 20s with a 90s recast. Here is where the fun begins. %DR gives better increasing returns than %HP boosts do. Assuming Thrill of battle works off of our Defiance HP (pretty sure it does) we get a total of 1.25*1.2=1.5 > 25% boost to effective HP for 10s every 2 minutes. Rampart further reduces damage taken by 20% for a total of 40% for 20s every 90s. 1/.6 = ~1.67 for a 42% boost to effective HP. %DR also has the added benefit of increasing the value of Cures cast on you since it only increases effective HP not max HP. The problem lies in that PLD has more tools to mitigate the big hits than WAR does, not only in effect but also in usability. Wrath needs to provide more Healing Boost and Wrath stacks need to be acquired faster in order for our Self Heals to mean anything.

[Acyd]

To any of the WARs running coil...

Do any of you use Awareness from Gladiator?

"Nullifies chance of suffering critical damage." 15 sec duration

Seems like a good skill to pull over, but just checking on real world results first.

[inkuzen]

I've been working my way down the Paladin route for a while now, but after reading this thread I feel that I'd rather be a Warrior. I generally chose Paladin because I like sword and shield. Don't get me wrong, I love them great axes also, but I've held the sword and shield combo for a long time. This thread makes Warrior seem like a fun challenge and a road slightly less travelled, let alone a road not travelled as well. I'm going to start leveling Marauder now! Thanks everyone!