Is most of FFXIV's failings due to their choice of engine?

[Evangelus]

does it mean that PS3 will cause limitation to the game?
like PS2 with FFXI .... ?

the same story again.

[Abriael]

does it mean that PS3 will cause limitation to the game?
like PS2 with FFXI .... ?

the same story again.

No. It means that the PS3 version wil run on lower resolution (720p), with a lower polycount and capped at 30 fps. As we already know.
Considering the fact that overally the graphics of this game are better than any other MMO on the market or that will hit in the foreseeable future, there's no indication than the PS3 is limiting the PC version.
That's why the PS3 version has been delayed to begin with, to solve the hardware issues it had *without* limiting the PC version.

[Allcars]

No. It means that the PS3 version wil run on lower resolution (720p), with a lower polycount and capped at 30 fps. As we already know.
Considering the fact that overally the graphics of this game are better than any other MMO on the market or that will hit in the foreseeable future, there's no indication than the PS3 is limiting the PC version.
That's why the PS3 version has been delayed to begin with, to solve the hardware issues it had *without* limiting the PC version.

The ps3 delay isn't due to hardware, its due the lack of content and low reviews of the game at launch. The ps3 needs to be a success that is why they are holding it back while they improve the game enough to get a 2nd review for the game, change that 4.0 into a 8 or 9.

Just because the art style of the one game looks better than another like for instance the character detail and texture detail on the model doesn't change the fact that unreal engine 3 can produce much more rich models than the ones in FFXIV, before you go being a fan boy and talking out of your ass, you need to know that it all comes to the game designer and what the market hardware they are targeting. These are the limitations of the models not the engine. So lets take a look at really what the Unreal Engine 3 can really do. Lets be blown away. This is what the unreal engine can do, FFXIV can't even hold a candle to it look at the detail in his face. Not to mention this is all in real time. If a game maker really wanted to they could put these sort of graphics out in an mmo, but who would be able to run it. These are the limitation of the models and textures you see in games like blade and soul, its limited not by the tech the engine runs on but by the hardware the market has.

The problem is the market, most games now days are made for consoles, then ported to pc. Crystal tools only uses dx9 because it was really written for the ps3/360 old hardware. So please don't talk about the how Crystal tools is some sort of amazing tech engine, because in truth it isn't its is flawed at its core, it was coded for old outdated architecture, and from what I can tell putting in newer effects will require a lot work than it might be worth. There is a reason why so many companies go for unreal engine 3, it is so scale-able, and the graphical pay off is high for the amount of resources it uses.

[Abriael]

The ps3 delay isn't due to hardware, its due the lack of content and low reviews of the game at launch.

Bull.
The PS3 version has been delayed quite a lot earlier than launch, and they explained quite clearly that it was due to them having to work around memory issues without influencing the PC version.

Just because the art style of the one game looks better than another like for instance the character detail and texture detail on the model doesn't change the fact that unreal engine 3 can produce much more rich models than the ones in FFXIV.

*BOOM*
Too bad that "art style" has absolutely nothing to do with the engine, character detail and texture resolution.

FFXIV has much "richer" models than any MMORPG ever made on the UE3, and it has nothing to do with "art style" (which is just a matter of art direction, not of hardware and engine), but with the fact that they have a much higher polycount, higher resolution textures and extensive use of normal mapping.

At the very least, please, get your fact straight. Polycount, texture resolution and mapping effects aren't a matter of opinion, and most definitely not of "style".

[Allcars]

Bull.
The PS3 version has been delayed quite a lot earlier than launch, and they explained quite clearly that it was due to them having to work around memory issues without influencing the PC version.



*BOOM*
Too bad that "art style" has absolutely nothing to do with the engine, character detail and texture resolution.

FFXIV has much "richer" models than any MMORPG ever made on the UE3, and it has nothing to do with "art style" (which is just a matter of art direction, not of hardware and engine), but with the fact that they have a much higher polycount, higher resolution textures and extensive use of normal mapping.

At the very least, please, get your fact straight. Polycount, texture resolution and mapping effects aren't a matter of opinion, and most definitely not of "style".

You have no idea what you are talking about, lets take a look at team fortress 2 and Half life 2 episode 2. Both use the same engine, one has much lower poly count and less detailed textures, both were released at the same time. If you bothered reading what I had to say about the player market base you would understand why mmo developers use the low detailed mesh's for their games using unreal engine 3, let me explain it to you again, this is because the largest market doesn't have high end machines, the main limitation of the graphics for games today is the market base, look at most games these days made for the 360/ps3 over the pc, why you ask? because of the market base on the consoles compared to the smaller base on the pc.

If you are right about the ps3 version of FFXIV due to the limitation of the hardware, I really don't see this game going anywhere. lets look at it like this if FFXIV were released on both console and pc, at the same time. Both were rated 4.0 I believe Square Enix would have canceled the game. The pc release was a market test/beta test to see if Square Enix could get away with releasing the game in the current state. The test showed that the game couldn't float on its name alone and thus the ps3 version delayed for a 2nd release so they can get a new review of the game when the ps3 version launches and get better scores. This will lead to not only a large ps3 player serge but also old and new pc players coming back to see what really has changed over the course of the year or however long it takes to make this game to change from a rushed rated 4.0 of a game, to a polished 8 or 9 rated game. So before you tell me to get my facts straight, you better get yours first.

[Abriael]

You have no idea what you are talking about, lets take a look at team fortress 2 and Half life 2 episode 2. Both use the same engine, one has much lower poly count and less detailed textures, both were released at the same time. If you bothered reading what I had to say about the player market base you would understand why mmo developers use the low detailed mesh's for their games using unreal engine 3, let me explain it to you again, this is because the largest market doesn't have high end machines, the main limitation of the graphics for games today is the market base, look at most games these days made for the 360/ps3 over the pc, why you ask? because of the market base on the consoles compared to the smaller base on the pc.

LOL. You're comparing two games that are part of two different *genres*, with extremely different requirements for gameplay, character display and environments.
I'm comparing two MMORPGs. Same genre -> comparison works. Different genre -> Apple to oranges.

But again, if you don't even know the difference between "art style" and graphical detail, there's very little to discuss. As of graphics quality (polycount, texture resolution, texture mapping effects and so forth), FXIV obliterates any MMORPG ever built with the UE3.
You can speculate as much as you want about how much the developers limited themselves, but that's just speculation.

When we'll see another engine producing a game as detailed as FFXIV, the we'll talk, at the moment there's none even on the horizon.

Mind you, you're so off base in talking about "art style" that it isn't even funny. The "art style" is exactly the reason for which i'll play Blade & Soul when it'll be released, as I absolutely adore Hyung Tae Kim's art.
But again, that has nothing to do with the engine.

If you are right about the ps3 version of FFXIV due to the limitation of the hardware, I really don't see this game going anywhere. lets look at it like this if FFXIV were released on both console and pc, at the same time. Both were rated 4.0 I believe Square Enix would have canceled the game. The pc release was a market test/beta test to see if Square Enix could get away with releasing the game in the current state. The test showed that the game couldn't float on its name alone and thus the ps3 version delayed for a 2nd release so they can get a new review of the game when the ps3 version launches and get better scores. This will lead to not only a large ps3 player serge but also old and new pc players coming back to see what really has changed over the course of the year or however long it takes to make this game to change from a rushed rated 4.0 of a game, to a polished 8 or 9 rated game. So before you tell me to get my facts straight, you better get yours first.

Lol. I don't need to get any fact straight. What you just wrote is total baseless personal speculation. What I stated is fact. The PS3 version was delayed way before the PC release, and they said clearly that they did so to solve memory issues it had. That's all there's to it. Fact > Speculation.

Oh really, I can tell you now that I have no intention of playing Blade and Soul, Tera on the other hand which tramples this game into the ground both visually and mechanically I will be.

Don't try to make me out to be a hater, that's not to say I'm a fanboy either, I'm just being realistic.

Bolded the obvious contradiction.

Tera has exactly the same flaws Blade and Soul has, it's easily surpassed by FFXIV in every aspect of character definition, texture effects and texture resolution.
It doesn't even get near FFXIV in overall graphics detail, and shading is the only area where it's better. Again, a single aspect doesn't make a whole engine better (especially considering that both engines include that feature, it's just a matter of implementation).

Tera looks nice, but it's nowhere near a miracle graphics-wise. It's usual korean MMO fare.

By the way, I'm such a "fanboy" that I'm going to play *both* Tera and Blade and Soul (and guild Wars 2, and SWTOR, and a couple others on my radar), lol

[Ava]

I didn't read the whole thread but I don't think the engine is entirely the issue. Using DX9 is a major issue when it comes to performance, but I honestly think that one of the bigger reasons for the blasnd environments, boring animations, etc, is because of PS3 limitations. PS3 has very low memory, it can't load half as much as an average PC. When you see beautiful console games it's because the worlds are fairly closed off and the console doesn't have to load as much, but in a MMO where worlds are completely open, that's a bit of a problem.

I think they intentionally made the environment copy/paste and the environments pretty boring because they were trying to keep the game portable to the PS3. I don't know if this will ever be fixed, I kind of want to say it wont, but who knows. PS3 is powerful for a console but it still can't even compete with just an average $300 PC.

[Allcars]

Having tried to explain all my reasons to you, You seem to not be able to understand the basic understanding of art style and how it ties in with texture detail, poly counts, shading, and all around graphical direction. Crystal tools is a great engine, but it isn't the best choice to use, that was the only point was I making and from what I can tell many others were making. Your head seems to be so high in the clouds you can't see past something so easy for everyone else to see, right now you look moronic and most people will have given up hope on arguing with you. I may have based the ps3 delay on speculation, but that isn't what I was pointing at for fact.

Here is some food for thought, the ps3 was due to be release in march correct? by then the ps3 limitations would have been figured out, if they have been figured out why isn't it release right away instead of waiting for an expansion to release. Much like they did with XI and the ps2.