Is most of FFXIV's failings due to their choice of engine?

[Abriael]

The ps3 delay isn't due to hardware, its due the lack of content and low reviews of the game at launch.

Bull.
The PS3 version has been delayed quite a lot earlier than launch, and they explained quite clearly that it was due to them having to work around memory issues without influencing the PC version.

Just because the art style of the one game looks better than another like for instance the character detail and texture detail on the model doesn't change the fact that unreal engine 3 can produce much more rich models than the ones in FFXIV.

*BOOM*
Too bad that "art style" has absolutely nothing to do with the engine, character detail and texture resolution.

FFXIV has much "richer" models than any MMORPG ever made on the UE3, and it has nothing to do with "art style" (which is just a matter of art direction, not of hardware and engine), but with the fact that they have a much higher polycount, higher resolution textures and extensive use of normal mapping.

At the very least, please, get your fact straight. Polycount, texture resolution and mapping effects aren't a matter of opinion, and most definitely not of "style".

[Allcars]

Bull.
The PS3 version has been delayed quite a lot earlier than launch, and they explained quite clearly that it was due to them having to work around memory issues without influencing the PC version.



*BOOM*
Too bad that "art style" has absolutely nothing to do with the engine, character detail and texture resolution.

FFXIV has much "richer" models than any MMORPG ever made on the UE3, and it has nothing to do with "art style" (which is just a matter of art direction, not of hardware and engine), but with the fact that they have a much higher polycount, higher resolution textures and extensive use of normal mapping.

At the very least, please, get your fact straight. Polycount, texture resolution and mapping effects aren't a matter of opinion, and most definitely not of "style".

You have no idea what you are talking about, lets take a look at team fortress 2 and Half life 2 episode 2. Both use the same engine, one has much lower poly count and less detailed textures, both were released at the same time. If you bothered reading what I had to say about the player market base you would understand why mmo developers use the low detailed mesh's for their games using unreal engine 3, let me explain it to you again, this is because the largest market doesn't have high end machines, the main limitation of the graphics for games today is the market base, look at most games these days made for the 360/ps3 over the pc, why you ask? because of the market base on the consoles compared to the smaller base on the pc.

If you are right about the ps3 version of FFXIV due to the limitation of the hardware, I really don't see this game going anywhere. lets look at it like this if FFXIV were released on both console and pc, at the same time. Both were rated 4.0 I believe Square Enix would have canceled the game. The pc release was a market test/beta test to see if Square Enix could get away with releasing the game in the current state. The test showed that the game couldn't float on its name alone and thus the ps3 version delayed for a 2nd release so they can get a new review of the game when the ps3 version launches and get better scores. This will lead to not only a large ps3 player serge but also old and new pc players coming back to see what really has changed over the course of the year or however long it takes to make this game to change from a rushed rated 4.0 of a game, to a polished 8 or 9 rated game. So before you tell me to get my facts straight, you better get yours first.

[TessaJalloh]

don't worry, 30fps is more than enough for an mmo. The eye itself sees things at 30 fps if i remember my biology right, most games aim for 60fps only so that when the game slows, it won't dip below 30. keeps the images flowing smoothly.

Your friend probably won't notice the difference.

[Nuru]

don't worry, 30fps is more than enough for an mmo. The eye itself sees things at 30 fps if i remember my biology right, most games aim for 60fps only so that when the game slows, it won't dip below 30. keeps the images flowing smoothly.

Your friend probably won't notice the difference.

Yeah I was hoping that was the case. I never had a game run below 30 fps besides FFXI on my laptop, and that was bad. Before i upgraded my graphics card on this computer I was playing FFXIV at around 20 FPS and it was decent, but now its well over 50 fps and I'm satisfied.

Thanks! I'm eager to know more about the PS3 version, since I can easily take a PS3 to my friend's house sometimes. Its more of the mobile way to play FFXIV than my desktop. lol

[Abriael]

don't worry, 30fps is more than enough for an mmo. The eye itself sees things at 30 fps if i remember my biology right, most games aim for 60fps only so that when the game slows, it won't dip below 30. keeps the images flowing smoothly.

Your friend probably won't notice the difference.

Actually the "the eye sees only 30 fps" theory has been debunked multiple times. That said, there's simply no way to make a game as graphically intensive as FFXIV run on a console at 60 fps, even with limiting the polycount and texture resolution.
While consoles have a more optimized hardware, they simply can't compare. That said, of course, 30 fps is still very enjoyable, and FFXIV won't be the first nor the last game running at 30 fps on consoles.

The funniest part about this kind of thread is that people scream the "the PS3 limited the PC version!" mantra over and over, while every single PC only MMORPG out there is extremely imited in it's engine not by having to run on PC or consoles, but by the fact that the developers want it to run on hardware from the early 2000s (that's much more limited than a PS3 will ever be) in order to grab more customers.

I find even more hilarious that you stand there and spout that you know better when you don't either.

At least i can critically assess a game's graphics, and understand that characters and environments have to share the hardware resources instead of being judged in airtight compartments.
looks like some don't.

Well if you can live with out real lighting and shadowing then good for you by I like my games to have those things, personal taste I guess.

So "real" that shadows don't even cast on characters?

[Jinko]

So "real" that shadows don't even cast on characters?

Self shadowing is a separate process and yes UE3 can do it, you are comparing a few videos that may not even have the game maxed out, for all we know self shadowing may be turned off in the players settings or maybe perhaps the game doesn't support it.

But your grasping at straws when all you have to go on is a few videos, when you actually have hands on experience let me know

[Abriael]

Self shadowing is a separate process and yes UE3 can do it, you are comparing a few videos that may not even have the game maxed out, for all we know self shadowing may be turned off in the players settings or maybe perhaps the game doesn't support it.

The fact that the unreal engine can do it doesn't matter it will be put in Blade and Soul, simply because self shadowing is *very* hardware intensive, especially when it has to work on a LOT of characters at once (situation that is very common in MMORPGs)
The crystal tools can do self shadowing as well, as much as dynamic lightning and shading. They simply didn't put it in this game because they preferred to focus hardware resources in other areas of the rendering, like characters, textures and texture effects, to which Blade and Soul (or any other MMORPG built with the UE3) doesn't hold a candle.
It's that simple.

An engine supporting a feature doesn't mean that that feature will be included in all the games created with it.

But your grasping at straws when all you have to go on is a few videos, when you actually have hands on experience let me know

So it's ok to use the same videos to bash FFXIV, but it's not ok to critically look at their actual flaws? LOL.
Talk about biased.

copy/paste is not a means of creating zones quickly?

Of course it is, some people just like to speculate on things they don't really know without having a single clue.

Mind you, if the devs had to reply to all the threads generated by ignorance that pop up on the forums, they wouldn't work on the game.


By the way, Se actually experimented with the UE3 (on The Last Remnant). Quite obviously the expriment has been discarded. With good reason.

[Jinko]

TSo it's ok to use the same videos to bash FFXIV, but it's not ok to critically look at their actual flaws? LOL.
Talk about biased.

Who's bashing anything, I'm simply stating what I see and you are the one aggressively defending FFXIV.

Fact is we both play FFXIV we know what the game is capable of, looking at a video and saying oh "that's it, whats the fuss about?" is very short sighted because as far as I know neither of us have access to mess around with Blade and Souls settings.

Sure I can look at that video and say environments look better, lighting looks better, shadows look better, because I have actual hands on experience with FFXIV.

I'm not the one being bias here lol.

By the way, Se actually experimented with the UE3 (on The Last Remnant). Quite obviously the expriment has been discarded. With good reason.

Indeed they didn't know how to take advantage of it, Lost Odyssey also used UE3 and did much better job at it, although granted it did have a few issues. (but MistWalker has a fraction of the employs and resources SE have)

You can't blame the engine for a lack of development knowledge.

[Kurokikaze]

To say that Blade and Soul looks like shit is really grasping at straws yo... The environmental details definitely look much better than the blandness that we see in this game. I mean look at that waterfall, look at the draw-distance on that. Also, I'm fairly certain that those settings aren't maxed out either.

Let's face it. FFXIV is not the graphical beast we all would like it to be, its more of a hog than anything really.

Edit: I should probably make a video showcasing this game's graphics compared to Blade and Soul and the other beast (TERA) at the same res with maxed out settings. Side by side comparisons would help greatly.

[shots]

Idk, the world was pretty awesome but the whole running on water thing got my attention... That shit was pretty tight.