Help, Why do I lose aggro when healer cast regen?

[Onshinn]

as said above, this happened when fighting Garuda(normal).
pulled with tomahawk, then healer cast regen, my aggro died. why?
and it was really hard to pull it back garuda, she was chasing healer around, and I have to keep running at both of them.
Died like many times, one dps got pissed off and left. Dps's said is my fault.
Am I doing something wrong? please help.

[Brannigan]

Regen healing and overhealing causes hate just like anything else.

[CyanDvai]

don't have the healer cast regen when you pull, healers should know this anyways, but also make sure you click off regen before you pull.
Healers should only be casting regen mid fight not at the start

[Onshinn]

Alright, I see, Next time will instruct healers that, Thanks a bunch!

[Kitru]

The different healing powers have different enmity mods. Regen has an enmity modifier of 1. Cure has an enmity modifier of .5. Cure II and a lot of the bigger heals have an enmity modifier of .8.

Barring Provoke on a target that you have absolutely no threat on while someone else has a crapton, Medica II is the highest enmity generating power *in the game*: it'll hit 8 targets for a potency 200 heal at a .8 modifier and then tick for 500 more over 15 seconds at a modifier of 1. That's 5280 enmity as spell potency *from a single 3 second cast*.

No healer should cast Regen or Medica II *any time* close to an add spawning: 10 seconds before and after a new enemy enters combat is Medica II/Regen no-time. If a healer casts either of those spells during that time, that healer better expect to take more than a few hits to the face by ripping aggro off of the tank, regardless of how good the tank is at generating aggro. Even Shroud of Saints isn't going to do enough a lot of the time: they simply generate *too much enmity* for a tank to rip back.

Most of the time that a healer rips aggro from a tank, it's not the tank's fault: healing generates aggro *really* efficiently, especially when it's AoE healing. A healer that heals indiscriminately is going to give even an *amazing* tank a helluva time.

[Niadissa]

As a healer I notice this too, I try not to cast regen towards the end of a fight, but because it does happen, tanks should also be in the habit of looking at there buffs before pulling, you may have a regen buff lingering from the last fight, and if you pull with that on, you may keep the mob that you hit first, but the other 2 are going straight for me lol

[CyanDvai]

snip

True story. I can't tell you how many times I've had a healer cast regen on me AS I'm running in to pull a group of mobs.
There are also the healers that love to spam their AoE heals for some ungodly reason when the only person that has any dmg is me (or maybe that dps that targeted the wrong mob).

It can be a pain fighting to get hate back from a trigger happy healer, same thing can be said about dps.
Tanking is a party effort, unless you have a horrible tank, if you're getting smacked in the face, you probably over did something.

[Dhex]

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Kitru is dead on with this explanation though I'm not sure about the exact enmity modifiers. In a situation where there is a single add or you simply lose hate to the healer your best course of action is to Cover that player -> then Provoke the target.

In add situations PLD and WAR are left with virtually no tools to deter monsters from targeting an over zealous healer. Flash and Overpower can't outpace Healing AOE enmity generated in 8 man groups. WHM can spam it's high enmity heavy Cure III/Cure II/Medica II and effectively take hate and hold it - I've had PUG WHM's brag they're "tanking" but it only lasts until their MP is diminished.

If you encounter an aforementioned WHM I suggest letting them have their fun, and then letting them eat dirt. FFXIV lacks a support role that can funnel enmity back into the tank or away from DPS/Healers effectively - this was the function of a Thief in FFXI. Hate redirection was & is a /really/ fun role to fill and it adds another layer of player cooperation and synergy to combat rather than the current direct "competition" between tank and party members for threat control. Both WAR and PLD would greatly benefit from a way to funnel the enmity of other members back towards themselves. Provoke is a good tool to jump to the top of the list in a single target emergency - but we can only tank when we're allowed the time to generate the needed enmity base on single targets or group targets.

[Kitru]

Hate redirection was & is a /really/ fun role to fill and it adds another layer of player cooperation and synergy to combat rather than the current direct "competition" between tank and party members for threat control. Both WAR and PLD would greatly benefit from a way to funnel the enmity of other members back towards themselves.

I was quite surprised that they decided to make a game with a non-trivial threat metagame without any kind of complex threat mechanisms. One of the best/most interesting things for a "support" role DPS would be threat redirection and a "support" healer could have a targeted threat drop (or an ability that has different effects depending upon the target's role: tank gets enmity on all target increased by 20%; DPS and heals get enmity on all targets reduced by 20%). While I don't believe that "support" should exist as an explicit role, there's a lot more "support" that could be tacked on to various jobs.

Provoke is a good tool to jump to the top of the list in a single target emergency - but we can only tank when we're allowed the time to generate the needed enmity base on single targets or group targets.

Honestly, Provoke doesn't really do all that much, even in an emergency. The only times that anyone should be pulling threat off of a tank is early on in a fight, when the finishing move of a Butcher's Block or Halone combo would still be more than enough to get the tank back to the top (not to mention providing more than Provoke did anyways). The only time you should need or even *want* Provoke is when you're the MT, you die, you get rezzed, and the OT can't take over MT for whatever reason. At that point, you *need* Provoke because it's the only way to get back to anywhere near the top of the enmity meters because you're starting at 0 while everyone else is in the 4-5 digit range. Of course, this is predicated on it not just being a wipe because the MT died or the OT not being able to pick up after you.

To be really useful, Provoke would need to provide either a time where the enemy is *forced* to attack you (so that you can rebuild a threat cushion) or a fair deal more "bonus" enmity than just max+1.

Also, interesting note, Provoke only generates aggro based upon the highest threat of your current party. It does nothing for ripping threat off of someone that isn't grouped with you (like FATE tanking).

[GrimmWulf]

Thank you for all the above info Kitru, I am a Glad tank but it all applies the same.
Much appreciated