Why pay a subscription?

[ErBear]

No, 40 man raids were not epic, they were a clusterpuff, for lack of a safe term to use on this forum. needing 40 people for several hours was overkill. You can make epic, challenging content without needing that many. It's nothing to do with being too hard, and everything to do with being simply unnecessary. Even 24 people is a lot, which is how big raids will be in this game, but it's a number I'm okay with.

Epicness does not directly correlate with number of players.

great, so you agree that fates are clusterpuff as well! So stop defending them.

[Rikudou-Sennin]

great, so you agree that fates are clusterpuff as well! So stop defending them.

I don't like the fates as they are because of that reason. I had a chance to run into a few fates that apparently no one was around and they were a lot of fun with a small group. They would be cool if certain areas were less populated.

[Alcyon_Densetsu]

Why pay a sub? Why play continuously?

The experience itself. The journey. Hanging around with friends, having fun with them, on a regular basis after a hard day's work. MMORPG are a totally different experience than other "shoot and leave" online games, because of the very fact that the world is permanent, and so are its social structures. It's one of these regular things we do every week, if not every day: a bar you like, a friend's you enjoy. MMO players are creatures of habits, which is why it's a very human hobby, despite its being virtual —emotions experienced in an online setting are by no means less "real" than those experienced with a physical object, especially when they involve other people in a social setting.

It's the very notion of "bonding with others" that is at work here. Something that tends to vanish in the current "I want it now - don't care about others" mindset that many people tend to develop these days in most of their activities; but in the end, we all need others to enjoy life. MMO gaming, on a very basic and humble level, is a way to do that, especially for people that don't have the luxury of going out every night —be it because of tight schedules, long commuting times, or even social fears.

That's why you subscribe to a sports club, you pay regularly for drinks in a pub, or you hang on to some online games. The activity, itself, may be more of a pretext than an end; and besides, it's the journey that matters, not the destination.

[Vaer]

The activity, itself, may be more of a pretext than an end; and besides, it's the journey that matters, not the destination.

Unless it's Castrum Meri or Amdapor Keep.

[Alcyon_Densetsu]

Unless it's Castrum Meri or Amdapor Keep.

I'd wager that if doing them all over again to achieve a "grind" isn't an enjoyable experience, then there's no reason to do it the first place, because the "end", being fully geared, will sooner rather than later become null in terms of gameplay —no later than the next patch. So if you didn't enjoy it, then you've gained pretty much nothing.

What I said here, however a bit more extensively (parts in navy blue).

On a personal level, when I grinded Castrum, and soon will grind Amdapor, I do it with friends, and we have a blast on Mumble. It's just fun, because we like combat in this game (no matter what we gain by "winning") and we enjoy ourselves together.

[Vaer]

I'd wager that if doing them all over again to achieve a "grind" isn't an enjoyable experience, then there's no reason to do it the first place, because the "end", being fully geared, will sooner rather than later become null in terms of gameplay —no later than the next patch. So if you didn't enjoy it, then you've gained pretty much nothing.

What I said here, however a bit more extensively.

Except you need to do it to do the other enjoyable things up the ladder, which is the entire reason why people do it even if they don't want to. Game design stonewalls you at some point with gear checks.

[Alcyon_Densetsu]

Except you need to do it to do the other enjoyable things up the ladder, which is the entire reason why people do it even if they don't want to. Game design stonewalls you at some point with gear checks.

You're right, formally, logically, but if it wasn't an enjoyment to some degree, then why do it? Nothing better awaits you in an MMO, it's just grind after grind. The only reason to go through a painful process would be to "clear all the content", in a typical "achiever's" mindset, but admittedly it only concerns a few % of the general population. If one doesn't enjoy playing the game itself, whatever it is they do in it, I see no reason to keep on doing it.

In my personal case, from level 1 onwards when I tried ARR in beta, I just liked combat. It felt good, amusing. I'm not saying all the quests were great, nor that every dungeon is as fun as the next, and obviously your mileage may vary, but all things considered, I'm having more fun fighting in FF XIV than I do in WoW, or GW2, or TOR, or TERA, and countless others for that matter. So, running a day's full of Castrums wasn't a problem for me, it was just... amusing. When I was with friends, or with a very nice and/or coordinated group (I don't mind newbies at all, on the contrary I like to explain and see others get better as they learn, however I strongly dislike self-righteous selfish people, and some of those ruined my pleasure in some DF runs).

If I didn't enjoy it, I wouldn't have done it (actually stopped using the DF at some point, for this exact reason). No matter what was after.

[Rikudou-Sennin]

FF 11 online was known for being super hard and it had a very low subscription base.

[Alcyon_Densetsu]

FF 11 online was known for being super hard and it had a very low subscription base.

EVE Online may be one of the hardest sandbox MMORPG out there, and granted due to that it has low subs numbers, but it never stopped gaining more players ever since it was released. Still rising as we speak.

[The-Alchemist]

EVE Online may be one of the hardest sandbox MMORPG out there, and granted due to that it has low subs numbers, but it never stopped gaining more players ever since it was released. Still rising as we speak.

I wouldn't say they have low subs. Everything is low compared to WoW numbers.