<DEV> request to remove dLVL

[Angstrom]

Stats Totaly revamped I vote yes.

[Jinko]

Yes I know I'm necro-bumping.

Thing is stats where revamped but Dlvl is still broken when it comes to blocking and evading with bosses.

I'm very much of the opinion that base stats need to be converted over to armour. (Meaning a smaller base stat pool and bigger stats bonuses from gear.)

Obviously the way evading and blocking needs to be revised also.

[Frein]

Yes I know I'm necro-bumping.

Thing is stats where revamped but Dlvl is still broken when it comes to blocking and evading with bosses.

I'm very much of the opinion that base stats need to be converted over to armour. (Meaning a smaller base stat pool and bigger stats bonuses from gear.)

Obviously the way evading and blocking needs to be revised also.

I agree that dLevel still plays far too major of a role in some calculations. It's much better than it used to be, at least.

[SionDurant]

I agree too.

The way stats calculate for classes is atrocious, this moreso effects Disciples of War, Disciples of Magic are working just fine.

[Neptune]

I completely agree, for the fifth time remove dLVL. Enemies of high level should be difficult to engage and beat, not impossible.

[Roaran]

When your character battles, you gain experience. Experience is simply learning. When you learn, your body doesn't necessarily get more powerful, you learn new more powerful skills and you learn how to use your old skills more effectively.

It would not make sense for a level 30 character with = attributes to a level 50 character to deal similar damage. The level 50 character should have some advantage. But a level 30 character with a significant advantage in attributes should be able to eventually surpass the weaker level 50 character.

So, while I agree that dlvl might be annoying, there would still be something needed to account for the actual progression experience and levels. You could push it into a modifier for our skills themselves, and then force only attributes to make a difference. But in there is no net change.

What I do agree with whole-heartedly, is making attributes play a more visible and significant role in the game; and, for the actual contribution and effects of attributes to be clearly identifiable.

[Frein]

So, while I agree that dlvl might be annoying, there would still be something needed to account for the actual progression experience and levels. You could push it into a modifier for our skills themselves, and then force only attributes to make a difference. But in there is no net change.

This is the problem:


Graph taken from Kaeko's blog. I assume he's not going to wish me dead for posting it here.

Against a L58 enemy the def stat does almost nothing until you get way past 1000 defense, a number nobody can reach even temporarily as far as I know. This is why you can tank Ifrit with WHM just fine if your HP pool is sufficient. The paper thin defense of WHM just doesn't matter nearly as much as you'd imagine.

Also, the block, evade and parry stats are practically meaningless against Ifrit as the proc rates are probably <1% regardless of what you're wearing.

edit: This post is flawed. Read Kaeko's reply below.

[Kaeko]

To clarify, that graph is specific to Ifrit only. It does not represent all R58 mobs, and definitely not any normal R58 mob.

The balance of that curve is fundamentally based on the mob's ATTACK POWER, and NOT their dLVL. Ifrit is an NM that has an extremely high attack over most R58 mobs, hence it takes more DEF to reach the supposed damage floor. This is why the curve looks so harsh. Increasing dLVL actually makes the curve LESS HARSH because the per-point decrease in damage taken for each point of defense increases with dLVL. With this in mind, dLVL actually helps you reach the damage floor. Again, it is the ATK of the mob that causes that curve to look so daunting.

There are a number of arguments you can make for or against dLVL, but that defensive efficiency curve would probably not be the best example to cite. I think you would make better cases for critical potency maybe. I'm usually very hesitant to post my opinion of mechanics like this because the answers are very complex, but I thought I'd come in here to clarify the actual mechanic for you guys since it's fairly confusing. But for the record, I'm a huge fan of dLVL.

[Peptaru]

yay Kaeko, I figured if I posted somethin along those lines I'd be called a troll for my effort. Its like the differences pointed out for MEVA when comparing ifrit to a rank 59 eyeball. They're not even in the same league.

That said, people only care about how things do on bosses, everything else "doesn't matter".

[Frein]

I stand corrected.