I'm done with Titan.

[Rhas]

The FATE system has nothing to do with how competent a player is at their individual class, people are simply scapegoating FATEs as the reason why there is so much incompetence among players

I have to disagree on this. The FATE system does have something to do with it, it encourages player laziness which when they get to actual hard content, they can't deal with it. Every MMO has to be learned how to play properly and if you don't take the time to learn because of *easy* leveling, that is as much the players fault as it is the team that enabled everyone to do it IMO.

[Alish]

I have to disagree on this. The FATE system does have something to do with it, it encourages player laziness which when they get to actual hard content, they can't deal with it. Every MMO has to be learned how to play properly and if you don't take the time to learn because of *easy* leveling, that is as much the players fault as it is the team that enabled everyone to do it IMO.

As I said in my edit, I leveled my Bard to 50 doing FATEs. I've got a couple dozen Titan clears and a relic weapon in my hand, does the way I level indicate how good or bad I am at this game?

[Rhas]

As I said in my edit, I leveled my Bard to 50 doing FATEs. I've got a couple dozen Titan clears and a relic weapon in my hand, does the way I level indicate how good or bad I am at this game?

Does the way you level indicate how well joeXXX or maryYYY can cope with the mechanics of hard content when they speed ran to 50, have poor gear, can't play their class properly, barely even been in team play where they expected the party to carry them through, never bothered with leveling GC because it was too much "work" for them, never been in a guildhest, don't know when to DPS and when to let the tank get agro back, don't know how to raise in combat as a WHM (yes I actually ran into this lol). I really can keep going on. You are not everyone else nor am I you either

[Alish]

Does the way you level indicate how well joeXXX or maryYYY can cope with the mechanics of hard content when they speed ran to 50, have poor gear, can't play their class properly, barely even been in team play where they expected the party to carry them through, never bothered with leveling GC because it was too much "work" for them, never been in a guildhest, don't know when to DPS and when to let the tank get agro back, don't know how to raise in combat as a WHM (yes I actually ran into this lol). I really can keep going on. You are not everyone else nor am I you either

It doesn't seem like a FATE problem now then does it? It sounds like an individual issue to me.

[Rhas]

It doesn't seem like a FATE problem now then does it? It sounds like an individual issue to me.

But fates promote quick leveling where they don't even have to worry about playing, or learning their job. With fates, learning your job is not necessary. People simply bypass everything in the game because the developers let them, for the most part. When everyone was "zerging" to end game content with everyone else, they never learned how to even play because they didn't have to learn.

[Stormsoul]

But fates promote quick leveling where they don't even have to worry about playing, or learning their job. With fates, learning your job is not necessary. People simply bypass everything in the game because the developers let them, for the most part. When everyone was "zerging" to end game content with everyone else, they never learned how to even play because they didn't have to learn.

this isn't a new thing for MMO's -- leveling in most games is just as mindless of an endeavor as grinding fates is. it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out these MMO classes - you can learn one in a day, easily. you're still using your abilities to kill things during FATEs -- same as questing. dungeons do teach you a bit about teamwork, but as is apparent, people are still going to make it to endgame not having a clue.. even with the forced story dungeons.

[Rhas]

this isn't a new thing for MMO's -- leveling in most games is just as mindless of an endeavor as grinding fates is. it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out these MMO classes - you can learn one in a day, easily. you're still using your abilities to kill things during FATEs -- same as questing. dungeons do teach you a bit about teamwork, but as is apparent, people are still going to make it to endgame not having a clue.. even with the forced story dungeons.

I know they will, but I couldn't help but comment when a poster said fates have absolutely nothing to do with bad people at endgame as it is just an enabler to let people playing poorly keep playing poorly, just be faster at it hehehe

There is no easy cure for the "i want it now with no work involved" people. Those people exist everywhere.

Fortunately I have a great FC where we can all play as we wish with lots of tanks and healers. Not too hard to get what needs to be done finished.

[Alish]

snip

You're still implying everyone that levels with FATEs have no idea what they're doing when they get to cap. I'd also like to add as soon as someone turns 50, any form of progression in the game is tied to group content. Cape Westwind, Castrum Meridianum and The Praetorium are essentially tutorials to get you ready for end game, they're not very hard and kind of get you primed and give you a better understanding of what your actual role will be.

FATEs in no way shape or form determine how quickly someone will grasp and understand how to play their respective roles, the game even forces you to clear dungeons to progress your story line, you WILL be forced to group up whether you like it or not so how you level doesn't really matter at this point.

[Rhas]

stuff

Part 1

No, I am implying that people who level in fates quickly may not fully understand what they are capable of for end game as they are leveling so quickly, they may not have time (or care) to learn how to use abilities that may save them some headache at end game content. Leveling your main quickly will not get (for example) the WHM swiftcast so they can instantly raise someone that goes down unless they also quickly leveled thm as well. They may not even think of it or even know about it. Is it necessary? No. Can it make life a little easier at endgame? Good chance it might. Leveling quickly in fates doesn't teach mnk or drg positioning either. You just whack on everything until its dead. It will also not get you geared better from "optional" dungeons.

[BlaiseArath]

As I said in my edit, I leveled my Bard to 50 doing FATEs. I've got a couple dozen Titan clears and a relic weapon in my hand, does the way I level indicate how good or bad I am at this game?

This is an age old discussion and personally I feel it has very little to do with how fast you exp. But there is some merit to it, though its not in speed of exp but in the situation of exp, anyone who think its strictly speed based is nothing short of pants on their head tarded. Anywho, Basically theres roughly 3 types of MMO players.

1) Those who will be good at any job they play regardless of how fast they exp to 50. This is due to them putting research into the job prior or just being quick learners.

2) Those who will be terrible at a job they play regardless of how slow or fast they exp to 50. This is mostly due to the "Its my 12.95" syndrome and vehement laziness and lack of ability to research or look at constructive criticism or advice as anything but raging insults from elitists.

3) Those who could be terrible at level 50 due to never getting a chance to learn their roles at level 50, and getting a good flow down, which would have been solved by being in a situations heavily reliant on their job and the mechanics of the game.

And frankly, I think the population is about 75% "Bad will be bad", 15% "Good", and 10% "Middle ground". Where the middle ground being Option 3. What it boils down too is there are a lot of people who play MMOs and just simply do not care how much of a detriment they are to others cause they play for many a reason, relaxing, they enjoy MMOs, or something else. When most of us think MMO, we think playing with others, Gear, so forth... while I don't agree with the types who gimp it from 1-50 and continue to due so, I see their reasonings, and while I wish they'd just go play an offline game so they stop causing wipes they have every right to enjoy the game as i do.

regardless, those types will be bad at the game no matter how slow or boring the exp is because the start, the key to learning your job is the actual want to learn your job. Without the want, there is no learning. So no amount of slow boring exp has never been a means to learn your job... If anything SE needs to make dungeons more appealing 1-49 so people will be encouraged to do them. So while that 75% will still be awful, we can encourage the last 10% to learn their jobs in places like Qarn lol.