What is marauder's role?

[Peregrine]

no point in arguing with Peregrine, you should see the complete BS she spouted about archer.

anyway, returning to topic, I'm an r21 mrd, and I've noticed that it's accuracy is awful, and I mean god awful. Feint helps, but you still miss more than half the time. Maybe I'm playing the job wrong or something, but I have trouble soloing mobs that I could kill easily as a gla at the same rank. Any thoughts from someone OTHER than the OP would be appreciated.

Don't even see marauder on your profile. What, do you want it to stay behind archer in usefulness and attention?
Of course, of course.

[Peregrine]

"MRD has defender, which is a good defensive skill and generates decent hate when in steadfast."
A marauder using defender is a gimp gladiator. Stick to your offensive advantages. You have no defensive advantages. I could take your hits on conjurer.

"MRD has the cheapest AOE TP move, Skull Sunder"
I have six 0 tp AoEs, and the gimp cone nature on Skull Sunder is a hamstringing joke. Of the four puks you just tried to hit, you didn't even reach two.

"MRD has the best AOE normal attack"
Haha no. Conjurer and thaumaturges do. We can essentially create your AoE normal attack....anywhere in a 8 meter radius whether we're there or not. It's called Nature's Fury.

"MRD has Storm's Path, which does AOE and generates hate."
And I have Aero, which does too. Again, I can make your storm's path anywhere on the map, regardless of whether I'm there or not.

"Maim is a good way to increase dmg."
At this point you've become "The token marauder."

"Basically MRD is a good way to do AOE dmg"
No it's not.

"so is useful on the dodore, goblin, and mosshorn fights."
No it's not. Mages and archers dominate your usefulness there. Have you even seen wide volley's AoE path? It actually makes sense. Unlike marauder's cones and even their meager circular and doughnut AoE's, archer AoEs are actually designed to uh...hit multiple enemies in formations that they ACTUALLY are found in in the game. Not convenient little cones.

"MRD is a good Goblin tank"
Better than none I guess. I can tank goblins and still do more damage than you on con.

"I can tank all goblins no prob on MRD, although I usually do it with THM nowadays."

Of course you do, because marauder is useless in a party. That's the point.

"Game needs to add more AOE and multiple claims so that MRD can have fun AOEing everything to death."

Uhh you'd still sit in town. Again, the mages are better than you at that anyway. Archer is much better than you at AoE. You think you're good at AoE's...you're like the next to last best job at them in reality. Just because you have more than everyone else doesn't mean they all aren't terrible. Becauuuse they are.

Game balance STARTS with the jobs that need enhancing standing for what they deserve. Look up there. You're not going to see the ARCHERS trying to defend you. They're going to tell you you're good enough as you are.

You're not. We're not.

[Rentahamster]

Sorry, glad was better than mrd at HPBB crowd control. You can't keep hate, your skills are less useful than a glad's circular aoe moves, and you can't even damage better than your healer.

I can keep hate just fine using the regular bunch of standard tank skills as well as MRD-only strategies.

Native Defender II + Steadfast + Skull Sunder II = lots of hate, and a low TP cost WS that adds DOT to all mobs.

Broad Swing = AOE dmg to all mobs and lots of TP generation. (MRD battle effectiveness does decrease dramatically, though, when fighting against single target).

Storm's Path = Powerful circular AOE that increases hate by a lot.

[Rentahamster]

"MRD has Storm's Path, which does AOE and generates hate."
And I have Aero, which does too. Again, I can make your storm's path anywhere on the map, regardless of whether I'm there or not.

Why are you comparing Storm's Path to Aero? They are in no way similar. I think you're getting that confused with Iron Tempest.

[Filtiarne]

Did you just seriously argue that one of your skills is doughnut shaped, and that's a GOOD thing?

Notice how I put Iron Tempest under the WEAKNESS category as a useless WS. Did you even read what I wrote or are you so intent on trolling a MRD thread with only r38 that you didn't even bother? No one is going to listen to you if you don't back up your claims with concrete experience and proof. Not to mention putting together organized and coherent thoughts tends to help your case. Come back when you are 50 and then we can talk, until then please kindly take your nonsense elsewhere, it's not needed or even respected here.

[VydarrTyr]

If Peregrine's point is that the devs should make Marauder stronger, ... well, I'm not going to complain about that. I would love to see them make Marauder more powerful. But I do want to point out a few differences of opinion:

Stick to your offensive advantages. You have no defensive advantages.

Well, Marauder certainly has some defensive advantages when compared to Conj, Thm, and Arc.

First, we get to wear the best defensive armor. (Conj, Thm, and Arc do not)

Second, we have the most native HP in the game. (Conj, Thm, and Arc have lower than average HP)

Third, Defender, Foresight, Steadfast, and to a lesser extent, Fracture. (Arc doesn't have anything like that, although Conj and Thm have better defensive skills than Mar)

Yes, Thms can use the broken skill Emulate to be very effective tanks right now. But I'll bet you one moko grass that changes in mid-June.

Between increasing Mar's defensive skills, and increasing their DPS, I'd prefer the latter. If Mars just end up being the 2nd best tanks, then we're only going to be useful when there are no Glads around. I think we'll be much more useful if we can contribute substantially to DPS.

The mobs are NEVER positioned right, and if you position yourself right...oh sorry you lost your AoE ability. Wait for steadf...op no the mobs moved again sorry.

Yeah, Steadfast can be problematic. That seems to be why the devs put Enduring March in the game. But the short duration, long recast time, and ultra slow motion movement -- plus the possibility that you're going to accidentally AoE a nearby mob -- means that virtually no one uses Enduring March.

Fortunately, we don't need Steadfast to AoE. We've got several AoE WSs, and we've got the game's only basic attack AoE in Broad Swing and Full Swing (although Full Swing seems to use a ton of stamina).

You think you're good at AoE's...you're like the next to last best job at them in reality.

Next to last? That's a bit too hyperbolic. I mean, if you think Mars' conal AoE stinks, then you must hate Pugs and Lncs' in-line AoE. And surely we can agree that Mars' AoE is better than Glads.

I agree with you that the ranged classes -- Arc, Conj, and Thm -- have better AoEs overall. But that's because they're ranged. I'm not sure how to change that. You can't really give Mars a ranged AoE (unless they equip throwing axes).

And yes, mages have the best AoE overall. They can use AoE attacks more easily, more often, to a more precise location, and with a wider range of attack options. The only advantage Mars have is that they need to worry a lot less about getting aggro from those AoE attacks, because we've got tons of HP, and because we won't move the mobs much. And because we're not wusses, so we stand in the middle of the fight.

As for the OP, I think Mars shine against large groups of mobs. Unfortunately, there are very few large groups of mobs to fight right now, since leves and behests never have groups bigger than 3 mobs. And even the 3 grouped NMs -- Mosshorn, Haughtpox, and Dodore -- were nerfed in terms of group size. So our strength has limited usefulness in the game right now. I'm hoping that will change in mid-June.

[Lienn]

Edit: It won't be me who will start flaming about all these nonsense posts of the OP (almost did tho ><).

I'll just ignore her posts like Vanguard319 suggested...and hope soon this forum start having an warning system so mods can start removing those that are unable of having a healthy discussion from the forum.

[Grundy]

I guess it's down to who you believe, all the rank 50 Marauders here who have argues that they can keep hate in a crowd control situation or the rank 38 forum notorious monster (he does seems to have a 5 minute respawn after all) that'll argue black is white.

I'll say this and I think it's as true in FFXIV as it was in FFXI: You don't really learn how to play your job until you've capped your class, because then is isn't all about getting the XP/SP it's about seeing what you can actually do.

[Peregrine]

"First, we get to wear the best defensive armor. (Conj, Thm, and Arc do not)"
Not listed: a shield. Most important defensive armor: A shield.

"Second, we have the most native HP in the game."
A pseudoadvantage that doesn't matter. You're not going to convince anyone to invite a marauder because of its "most HP" title.

"Yes, Thms can use the broken skill Emulate to be very effective tanks right now. But I'll bet you one moko grass that changes in mid-June."

So marauder has no role now, but it's okay because it might in the future. Unfortunately gladiator will always exist, so you're just a substitute gladiator defensively. Always will be. Marauder is for damage. No other role will count for anything for the job.

"I think we'll be much more useful if we can contribute substantially to DPS.Yeah, Steadfast can be problematic. That seems to be why the devs put Enduring March in the game. But the short duration, long recast time, and ultra slow motion movement -- plus the possibility that you're going to accidentally AoE a nearby mob -- means that virtually no one uses Enduring March."

There you go.

"if you think Mars' conal AoE stinks, then you must hate Pugs and Lncs' in-line AoE. "

They're actually easier to hit multiple targets with, because you can freely move and line them up.

"I agree with you that the ranged classes -- Arc, Conj, and Thm -- have better AoEs overall. But that's because they're ranged. I'm not sure how to change that. You can't really give Mars a ranged AoE (unless they equip throwing axes). "

You can't. Marauder is a poor idea right now. "Master melee AoE'er" No it's not lol...that's even more lame than thief's "hate control" pitch, which got snickers and eye-rolling from the population.

"And yes, mages have the best AoE overall. They can use AoE attacks more easily, more often, to a more precise location, and with a wider range of attack options. "

Right. Making marauder pointless, gimp, needless as designed right now.

"The only advantage Mars have is that they need to worry a lot less about getting aggro from those AoE attacks"
The only reason mages, and archers for that matter go down more easily when they get agro, compared to marauder...is that the marauder is already by the AoE cure range of the tank which makes adjustment by the healers easy, and gets reapplication of protect and shell by default for being in AoE range. With collusion, out of sight, judicious use of enmity-reducing darts, and the like...archers and mages are just better damage jobs than marauder. The only reasons marauders have less to worry about agro...are things they have nothing to do with personally that you could say about any meleer who could (but probably won't) draw hate.

"As for the OP, I think Mars shine against large groups of mobs."

It absolutely does not. Archer, gladiator, and the mages make you less than 50th percentile at large groups of mobs. The only jobs that are worse than this one in large groups of mobs are lancer and pug. You're bad, saying you shine. The job's NEVER going to get the attention to balance it needs if you can't even recognize where your job's strengths aren't even strengths.

Marauders are terrible at groups. Archers' AoE's are superior and they do more damage more safely. Mages AoE's are superior, they do more damage, more safely, and to more enemies, with real crowd control abilities. Evem a gladiators' AoEs are suprior, because they're designed to be functional in situations where they will be used, unlike Marauders' which won't work in situations where they would be used.

You think you were amazing at the original dodore and HPBB...and you just weren't. The only thought that came to my mind when a marauder volunteered to be "crowd control"...guess I'd better put more types of cure on the bar and won't be doing the damage that this mrd won't be either.

When a ninja took the place of a paladin, at least the mobs died faster. When a marauder replaces a gladiator, everything dies more slowly, because every other spell that would have been an aero...is now a cure II. They make the party worse when they volunteer for their job. I'd rather them just stay in full BR DD role, because that's the only thing they're good at. And by good, I just mean the same as a pugilist and lancer.

As a non-marauder who watches you all at the same events that you claim you shine at...no you don't. I'm sorry. Your arguments are not going to keep marauder competitive. No one will buy them, because they're just fanboyish.

Marauder is too poorly designed to survive selective invite processes that come with difficult content. You WILL be sitting your ass in town if this game gets good. It needs fixed.

[Peregrine]

I guess it's down to who you believe, all the rank 50 Marauders here who have argues that they can keep hate in a crowd control situation or the rank 38 forum notorious monster (he does seems to have a 5 minute respawn after all) that'll argue black is white.

I'll say this and I think it's as true in FFXIV as it was in FFXI: You don't really learn how to play your job until you've capped your class, because then is isn't all about getting the XP/SP it's about seeing what you can actually do.

In about three weeks my marauder will make yours look like a hobby, then what are you going to say?
I see a lot of marauder's fans. The Cleveland Browns have fans too. Doesn't mean they're good, and doesn't mean their fans have a grasp on their teams' actual standing in the league.

You can fanboy marauder up all you want, and play it for another 500 hours. As a mage looking at you...I just usually wish you were a gladiator or an archer. Love the job, love the axe, was a big fan of Daddy Warrior...but you just aren't what you think you are. Sure you're a fan of what you are, but it's clouding your judgment.

That's got to change, no matter how many marauder fanboys say it's fine like it is. No, it's not.