[Discussion] The Pugilist of the Future!

[Meleena]

Yeah But I didn't pick pugilist cause I wanted to play as Tank (maybe blink tank, but only under conditions).
I was a Monk player in FF11 and I wanted a Monk in this game too, so what should they do IMO is to separate the thief abilities from the Monk abilities on this class.
Pugilist should be strong DD with emphasis on fast DOT damage (spike damage is for other classes), should have many HP but less armor.
I am sure that when the auto attack comes in, we will notice a real difference on the speed that some classes deal damage and I hope that pugilist is gonna be among the fast ones.
After that, give him some kick animations and a 2hour ability that beats the crap out of the target like 100fists and Ill have the class that I enjoy playing again :P

[Akuun]

Yeah But I didn't pick pugilist cause I wanted to play as Tank (maybe blink tank, but only under conditions).
I was a Monk player in FF11 and I wanted a Monk in this game too, so what should they do IMO is to separate the thief abilities from the Monk abilities on this class.
Pugilist should be strong DD with emphasis on fast DOT damage (spike damage is for other classes), should have many HP but less armor.
I am sure that when the auto attack comes in, we will notice a real difference on the speed that some classes deal damage and I hope that pugilist is gonna be among the fast ones.
After that, give him some kick animations and a 2hour ability that beats the crap out of the target like 100fists and Ill have the class that I enjoy playing again :P

Since SE is planning to, make classes more role specific, and planning to add jobs as well (granted nothing has been said beyond this), I think we should wait a bit before we start going on rants about how pugilist isn't monk. I played monk as well, and really enjoyed the job. Would I like asuran fists? hell ya! Would I like to see something like 2hr abilities? for sure and not just for pug. Would I like to see pug be a faster attacker? you bet. But for now too many things are up in the air to even start making suggestions. I think after the dungeons patch we might have a clearer idea of where SE is heading and be more able to help guide those ideas.

[DurtiMonkeyToe]

Since SE is planning to, make classes more role specific, and planning to add jobs as well (granted nothing has been said beyond this), I think we should wait a bit before we start going on rants about how pugilist isn't monk. I played monk as well, and really enjoyed the job. Would I like asuran fists? hell ya! Would I like to see something like 2hr abilities? for sure and not just for pug. Would I like to see pug be a faster attacker? you bet. But for now too many things are up in the air to even start making suggestions. I think after the dungeons patch we might have a clearer idea of where SE is heading and be more able to help guide those ideas.

I disagree here. First, I don't think anyone in here is 'ranting' per se, and I did set this thread up to see what PUG players thought of the class. If a suggestion needs to be made, now is the time to do it before the job system is set in its way and harder to change. As a community we need to make sure that SE hears what we want and what we don't like so they can account for that in the planning phase because by the time they reach the point where they are releasing information and coding the changes, it may be too late.

From what I have seen so far, PUGs make pretty good tanks. Maybe 'too' good. Is there an advantage in going with a MRD or GLD tank over a PGL? I think that PGL may be lacking in the AOE tanking area, but that is good. PGL should be good one on one fighters, better than keeping the attention of a whole group of enemies.

Lets turn our attention to DD. Do PGL do enough damage?

Personally what I would like to see is a range of abilities that would let players focus their skill set on what they enjoy more. If you enjoy being a tank, then you could set up your skill bar for tanking and your stats (once they are fixed of course) would reflect that by being higher in CON and DEX for more HP and more EVA. If you wanted to be a better DD, then you could spec yourself for that class with higher STR and DEX for dealing more damage and more specific skills.

The problem I have is that the game as it is doesn't give you any hard choices. I can fill my bar with every 'useful' PGL skill and still have plenty of room to fill it with any other skill I could want. Evasion Up (THM) sure why not. Cure? Hells yeah! Sacrifice too! Plus Raging Strike, Defender, Rampart, Provoke, ect, ect! I love having the freedom of choice, but it lacks any real strategy when allocating skill points and setting my abilities.

[Akuun]

I think we should wait a bit before we start going on rants about how pugilist isn't monk.

I just want to clear things up as people seem to be misunderstanding what I said.
I didn't say that anyone is ranting, I also didn't point at any particular person.
I also said it with tense on the future, not past tense.

Now that that is out of the way.

With the stated party setup (according to Yoshi-P)
Light party (4)
Tank x1
Healer x1
DPS x2

Full party (8)
Tank x2
Healer x1
DPS x4
Support x1

Looking at this, and that there are currently 7 classes, 3 of which are designed to tank. (pug, gld, mdr)
It's likely that pugilist will be the class to be removed from this group due to gladiator and marauder already having aoe abilities for tanking.

The biggest problem with trying to make suggestions is we really have no foundation of what pugilist or any other class is headed. The sky could be the limit.
If we simply want pugilist to be a clone of monk then how do you define monk? I know that question sounds silly, but from what I've been hearing from people still playing FFXI monk has become a DPS Tank.

I don't think that pugilist is so great a tank that it can't be a solid sustained DPS. As far as whether you are DPS or Tank, I feel should be based on gear and stat points. (since SE seems to be keeping the stat system)