So i finished my PLD... After my WAR

[Faction]

Or just not over heal when we wars IB... yeah...

Surely, the healers must adapt to accomodate the ability that averages out to about 10 extra hp/s, that is a complete and utter non factor in overall Warrior survivability. I'm sure it's huge down there in the Wanderer's Palace, a dungeon where you could receive no heals for 20 seconds and still not die.

[Ramsey]

dex may not be a useless attribute comparing to int, mnd, piety.

but it is useless comparing to vit str.

Not quite that useless, in fact, at Lv50, iLvl70 crafted accessories are the best in the game for tanks pre-coil drops, due to the itemization having STR, DEX and 2 secondary stats, since you can slot it with VIT and get a much better item than the equivalent darklight gear. Additionally, after adding enough ACC to hit the Coil cap, DEX is the best stat to socket. In a crafted set you can easily get over +100 DEX, which is over 13% additional mitigation on PLD. It's not as stellar on WAR though unfortunately.

[Ruminate]

Not quite that useless, in fact, at Lv50, iLvl70 crafted accessories are the best in the game for tanks pre-coil drops, due to the itemization having STR, DEX and 2 secondary stats, since you can slot it with VIT and get a much better item than the equivalent darklight gear. Additionally, after adding enough ACC to hit the Coil cap, DEX is the best stat to socket. In a crafted set you can easily get over +100 DEX, which is over 13% additional mitigation on PLD. It's not as stellar on WAR though unfortunately.

This is an example of why it is the PLD, not the WAR, that scales better with gear.

[Nailkita]

A note for the sad warriors out there, though he sadly left before demon wall (think he was after something from the first chest cause he left after he opened it) I was experimenting on a pug warrior for different ways of healing. I actually found that by using stoneskin, and regen I hardly had to heal the warrior and had no issues keeping my mana under control, it did become problematic when there was damage on others so I wasn't able to attend to my stoneskin as much, but I think that's part of the learning curve.

While this will take more intensive testing, it may be that while warriors need a little bit of fixing, it's more on the healers to adapt to the type of damage they take. I have no issues healing even bad warriors with my scholar since I'm mentally in a preemptive healing mode. While on WHM I'm in reactive healing mode, which is not very safe way to heal with spikey tanks.

[caspergrey]

Differences in playstyle are good, but differences in effectiveness are *not*.

I agree with most of your post minus this statement. I think that it is acceptable to have one role more effective in one situation, but less effective in another. Both should be viable in all situations. Of course no ONE class should be universally more viable. Also, I think by keeping key differences it allows you to build more synergy in multiple tank groups. If the two classes are equally effective in all cases it keeps strategies relatively consistent regardless of makeup.

Also some players will prefer higher skill cap classes. War definitely has a higher skill cap, so as a result you will get a bad war more often than a bad pld. But I'm not convinced you take that away as long as the same result can be achieved by both classes at max player skill.

This is by no means a comment on the current situation, more a personal opinion on class design in general.

[Kitru]

I think that it is acceptable to have one role more effective in one situation, but less effective in another.

General effectiveness is what I was referring to, not situational effectiveness. Purely by dint of having different mechanics, CDs, and the like, any two classes within the same role will be most effective at different situations.

Both should be viable in all situations. Of course no ONE class should be universally more viable.

"Viability" is a binary aspect: either you're viable or you are not. *Effectiveness* exists on a sliding scale, however. All classes should be viable in all cases and equally effectively, in general. Viability exists as a minimum level of performance for any piece of content. Effectiveness exists as a comparative assessment of performance between multiple classes in the same role.

Also some players will prefer higher skill cap classes. War definitely has a higher skill cap, so as a result you will get a bad war more often than a bad pld. But I'm not convinced you take that away as long as the same result can be achieved by both classes at max player skill.

There's actually a very strong case for high skill cap classes to actually perform *better* than low skill cap classes: the better performance exists as a reward for playing at a higher skill level. It shouldn't be a *massive* difference in performance, but it should still be there simply as a reward for the higher risk contingent in playing a higher skill class.

[caspergrey]

"Viability" is a binary aspect: either you're viable or you are not. *Effectiveness* exists on a sliding scale, however.

Oh, haha, yeah, typo. I was thinking Of course no ONE class should be universally more effective and both classes should be viable in all situations. My point was that I'm personally more lenient with situational effectiveness given overall effectiveness is equal.

There's actually a very strong case for high skill cap classes to actually perform *better* than low skill cap classes: the better performance exists as a reward for playing at a higher skill level. It shouldn't be a *massive* difference in performance, but it should still be there simply as a reward for the higher risk contingent in playing a higher skill class.

Good point.

[Kiaris]

I'm still waiting to see how WAR is actually harder to play then a PLD.

btw. I have both at 50. Relic on my WAR, working on PLD relic. So far.. WAR is no harder to play then a PLD.. its actually easier due to overpower vs Multi Mobs.

[Faction]

I'm still waiting to see how WAR is actually harder to play then a PLD.

btw. I have both at 50. Relic on my WAR, working on PLD relic. So far.. WAR is no harder to play then a PLD.. its actually easier due to overpower vs Multi Mobs.

Oh yeah, it's so hard to mash flash over overpower. Poor babby.

This is an MMORPG with a 2.5 second gcd and no real character customization, every class is easy.

[Rios-Drakoon]

I'm still waiting to see how WAR is actually harder to play then a PLD.

btw. I have both at 50. Relic on my WAR, working on PLD relic. So far.. WAR is no harder to play then a PLD.. its actually easier due to overpower vs Multi Mobs.

Warrior is not harder to Play, ist just harder to heal, compared with Paladin.