Lack of character "skills" customization...?

[Arrukai]

....
To hit on something from other threads, I'd rather see them put multiple armor sets and weapons in game that drive play style. Give me two armor sets for my SCH. One that increases the strength of my shields while the other increases my base healing rate.

Gear can be just as useful as specs and can often be easier to keep balanced.

Very sensible arguments, Daragust, and I agree wholeheartedly. The variety in play that people think can only be achieved with multiple specs is done through switching classes/jobs in FFXIV. Each time my sister and I have changed our combination in the same dungeon, we've had a different experience and have made us better players in our preferred classes. I also like the idea with gear, and there is more longevity and balance going that route than overloading our screens with skills that will largely get discarded through player optimization.

[Joshhoowah]

Yes, I approve of OP post. there is no difference between "Holy" or "Discipline" for priest healer... there is no difference between DPS, Tanks, whatever. Crossskills choice is useless, because everyone's using the same. Hell, even people wear the same gear. It's like FF: Attack of the clones. It will be even worse in PvP, because you will know, that this warrior has exact gear with exact skill set, and it's like paper-rock-scissor games. Where is the choice of SW ToR, or of Rift... why I can't play DPS paladin, why I have to wear the same gear.

And yes, there is no difference if you take that +1 from MND and put it in VIT or INT. Any theorycrafting or trying to make yourself better is worthless.

Those are the reasons, that I share with OP, and why I just cancelled subscription.

"Just got to Lv 20... nothing more to see here."
Troll or ... ?

[Fire-Dragon-DoL]

I would like to clarify that "spec" is just a name, if it's done with equipment, with skills, with a talent tree or subjob it doesn't matter.

The truth is that there aren't ANY of these things.

The gameplay is not something "new": we have seen a lot of games with a gameplay ~80% similar to this, maybe even 90%.
No character customization at all (not graphically I mean), nothing "special" about skills (all of those skills are widely common in mmorpg), are making this game nothing special.

Yea, they really have great graphic design, I must admit it (at least I appreciate it), but for an mmorpg, while is important, you need a good gameplay which usually involves some character customization.

Subskills IS actually a good way and I think is what they wanted to make but for some reason they blocked ALL subskills. And this is insane, basically I have a FALSE character customization through stats and skills that you can't really choose.
I don't get it, they spent money doing those systems (allocating points, subskill system is wide), then they didn't allow us to choose something that can actually impact our gameplay.

[Balaur]

No choices. Secondary skills are just cooldowns that may be used on correct moment and everyone have access to the same skills (which are indeed 5... so, no choice at all, just level farming).

You go out into a random Primal battle and see how many other casters not cross-classing Swiftcast who can, and you'll see some discrepancies. Some people don't even bother picking up skills or bother leveling the third class which can feed into their cross-class skills. This is like a Warrior picking up Gladiator skills, but leaving Pugilist to rot.

[Fire-Dragon-DoL]

You go out into a random Primal battle and see how many other casters not cross-classing Swiftcast who can, and you'll see some discrepancies. Some people don't even bother picking up skills or bother leveling the third class which can feed into their cross-class skills. This is like a Warrior picking up Gladiator skills, but leaving Pugilist to rot.

This is not character customization, everyone can have it.
Sorry if we are bored to farm the entire time with no real feedback -.-

[Naunet]

...Not to mention the fact that stat distribution actually is completely useless, I don't even know why it's there.

Attribute bonus points are seriously the most half-assed character customization aspect I've ever seen. >_<

It'd be neat if it worked something like WildStar's Milestones. Putting points in certain things could unlock certain traits, rather than having traits unlock passively as you level (this would require the addition of more, actually well-designed and interesting traits, of course). Do that, and then make it significantly easier to switch points around, and you'd get a really interesting slew of options. That is, if Squee can manage to come up with actually interesting traits. Considering how they build classes though ("Healers need a single target small heal, a big heal, an aoe, a HoT..."), I don't really have that much confidence...

[Snat]

Was going to start a new topic with something like this in mind but found this and thought I would post an idea related to sub-skills that I think would help a lot (I am aware my idea is not balanced but to be honest I am a player, not a designer so I can't say if it would work out or not). Will copy and paste what I was about to post but will sound odd as I have not edited it in response to any of the posts - it simply is a idea related to this.

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Off-Weapon

I have been playing this game with my brother (we are finding it a great game – his first MMO and my second from FFXI) and he decided to role as his favourite job system dating back from the IV game – a Paladin.

Now he started off having no idea what he was doing but have been able to tank very well to near end game and we are just about to finish it but one thing he was looking forward too was being being able to tap up the curing of the party and other basic White Magic but as I am sure you know – it sucks with a Paladin.

Then just yesterday he was playing as a miner and got a hammer and it made me think, what would it be like if the jobs should use the weapon from the second class with a few changes coming with it.

I am going to use White Mage as an example as it is the main job that I know from experience.

So lets say in this example I have a Level 30 Conjurer and a Level 15 Arcanist. If I had a one handed weapon equipped such as the Yew Wand, I could then also equip any one handed weapon that a Arcanist could use up to the level I have (such as any level 15 Arcanist weapon). In doing so it could gain the stats from the weapon and a few other skills from the Arcanist list (such as being able to summon a Carbuncle etc, whatever makes it more useful but still balanced). The plus to this is it will allow the player to focus on their main role but also be able to do something on the side IF they needed to fill in for something that their sub-class is apart off.

However with this there would be a down side. The first is they could not use a two handed weapon (so in White Mage's case they would have lower mind, Paladin defence would suffer etc) which would make them to suffer a bit with their main role – something they would need to balance and think in advance. Another side effect would be the player would lose ALL other possible abilities from other classes that is not the sub class such as White Mage would no longer be able to use Swiftcast. Which as you know would make them suffer if raising is needed.

I am aware some classes do not have one handed / two handed weapons but it would also be great to see what they come up with regarding one handed weapons (and again not a designer or anything but such ideas for Archer like a one handed cross bow).

This would allow us to think differently with our jobs and thus new ideas to bring onto the battle field. I do understand a lot of it would need to be balanced, but hey its a start … or there could be a good reason why this would not work out

[Fire-Dragon-DoL]

Was going to start a new topic with something like this in mind but found this and thought I would post an idea related to sub-skills that I think would help a lot (I am aware my idea is not balanced but to be honest I am a player, not a designer so I can't say if it would work out or not). Will copy and paste what I was about to post but will sound odd as I have not edited it in response to any of the posts - it simply is a idea related to this.

----

Off-Weapon

I have been playing this game with my brother (we are finding it a great game – his first MMO and my second from FFXI) and he decided to role as his favourite job system dating back from the IV game – a Paladin.

Now he started off having no idea what he was doing but have been able to tank very well to near end game and we are just about to finish it but one thing he was looking forward too was being being able to tap up the curing of the party and other basic White Magic but as I am sure you know – it sucks with a Paladin.

Then just yesterday he was playing as a miner and got a hammer and it made me think, what would it be like if the jobs should use the weapon from the second class with a few changes coming with it.

I am going to use White Mage as an example as it is the main job that I know from experience.

So lets say in this example I have a Level 30 Conjurer and a Level 15 Arcanist. If I had a one handed weapon equipped such as the Yew Wand, I could then also equip any one handed weapon that a Arcanist could use up to the level I have (such as any level 15 Arcanist weapon). In doing so it could gain the stats from the weapon and a few other skills from the Arcanist list (such as being able to summon a Carbuncle etc, whatever makes it more useful but still balanced). The plus to this is it will allow the player to focus on their main role but also be able to do something on the side IF they needed to fill in for something that their sub-class is apart off.

However with this there would be a down side. The first is they could not use a two handed weapon (so in White Mage's case they would have lower mind, Paladin defence would suffer etc) which would make them to suffer a bit with their main role – something they would need to balance and think in advance. Another side effect would be the player would lose ALL other possible abilities from other classes that is not the sub class such as White Mage would no longer be able to use Swiftcast. Which as you know would make them suffer if raising is needed.

I am aware some classes do not have one handed / two handed weapons but it would also be great to see what they come up with regarding one handed weapons (and again not a designer or anything but such ideas for Archer like a one handed cross bow).

This would allow us to think differently with our jobs and thus new ideas to bring onto the battle field. I do understand a lot of it would need to be balanced, but hey its a start … or there could be a good reason why this would not work out

The idea is nice but it's definitely not doable, while just being able to unlock some traits with some stats it's quite easy, changing the ground of the game: WEAPON = CLASS it's a big issue, they can't do it easily from a technical point of view.

[Giantbane]

I rather liked what they did with the sub job system in FFXI. It felt like the sub job abilities better complimented and helped define how you performed your main job.

Cross class abilities seem very limited and do little to effect how the main class plays in this game. Especially for jobs as you have access to fewer cross class abilities and have fewer cross class slots available.

[DoctorPepper]

I also think merit points would solve this problem but I doubt they'll come until the cap rises. For the time being you'll just have to be content with leveling other classes to give yourself some edge and change your play style.