Rank limits on gear

[Augury]

I really dont think having no visual gratification for getting high level is immersive, to the high levels, or the low levels. I think its a good option to be able to control your look based on what you like, but this option should also be level related, give people a reason to want to get high level, give them something to do. Making strong people look strong is part of a fantasy setting imo. The knight with who stole the sword of the gods should have a sword that looks like he stole it from the gods, and the guy who did not, should probably not visually look like he stole the sword of the gods, when he is getting owned by level 1 rarabs.

to jinko, na i didnt see anything mentioning macroing gear change into jobs, i did see the skill thing, of course that was something they claimed to be working on from even before release, so i dunno when we ll see that.

This is also assuming there will BE a high level. But a new player would be unable to craft or trade for the crafts of many different gears- so a newer player would be stuck in the beginning gears. A good example of this would be either Monster Hunter or Guild Wars, where there is some effect to gear, but the choices are mainly aesthetic.

In Monster Hunter Tri, for example, in "High Rank", the only glass floor is that you need High Rank gear to survive. No High Rank equipment outclasses another, and all HR equipment supplies useful skills. Ontop of that, you can upgrade low-rank equipment (with different skillsets), so that it has the same DEF as their high rank counterparts, but they supply an "alternative" version which sometimes compliments a set of gear BETTER than full High Rank.

In Guild Wars, they made it to where high leveled gear can be reskinned to look like any of the available gears they outclass.

To me, this is an important factor in both games, because it doesn't give visual cues to how "powerful" a player is, forcing players to rely on one another and trust that the other is as skilled as they claim to be. THAT is immersive.

I also don't get why so many people are worried about alienating noobies from people who have been playing the game for a while, that makes it difficult to get immersed to begin with, and just causes social stress.

[Physic]

This is also assuming there will BE a high level. But a new player would be unable to craft or trade for the crafts of many different gears- so a newer player would be stuck in the beginning gears. A good example of this would be either Monster Hunter or Guild Wars, where there is some effect to gear, but the choices are mainly aesthetic.

In Monster Hunter Tri, for example, in "High Rank", the only glass floor is that you need High Rank gear to survive. No High Rank equipment outclasses another, and all HR equipment supplies useful skills. Ontop of that, you can upgrade low-rank equipment (with different skillsets), so that it has the same DEF as their high rank counterparts, but they supply an "alternative" version which sometimes compliments a set of gear BETTER than full High Rank.

In Guild Wars, they made it to where high leveled gear can be reskinned to look like any of the available gears they outclass.

To me, this is an important factor in both games, because it doesn't give visual cues to how "powerful" a player is, forcing players to rely on one another and trust that the other is as skilled as they claim to be. THAT is immersive.

I also don't get why so many people are worried about alienating noobies from people who have been playing the game for a while, that makes it difficult to get immersed to begin with, and just causes social stress.

in guild wars you couldnt buy gear in a market ward, you had to be able to get to the place where the crafter was, and obtain the items for making it, while you could buy the items, most were drops from appropriately leveled mobs/salavging those drops.
Mostly of course it was getting to the place, some of the makers were in places you could not get to without completing a certain portion of the story. Which basically makes those high level skins, you can only get for achieving great things. And that was fine.

While i am not married to gear and stats being linked, I am married to having high level/rare content reward you visually. It gives you things to work for, and too hunt, even in games with no stats tied to items, the costume unlock items still have a high value. People want to progress, and working towards getting cool looking gear is a big attraction to playing a game.

Its not about alienating newbs, its about making the game overall entertaining, in your system only money would be the ultimate goal, because you can buy everything visual.

I remember in ffxi, because i started early on, quite a few new players were amazed by my appearence, while for me it was a bit ehhhhhh embarassing? From what they told me, seeing a high level monk, when they were a monk, decked out in gear inspired them, and gave them something to aim for. That is immersive. Its just like in a racing game, you look at the cars, people who race well want to have cool cars, and people just starting want to strive to obtain those cars, not just thier stats.

[Felis]

Making strong people look strong is part of a fantasy setting imo. The knight with who stole the sword of the gods should have a sword that looks like he stole it from the gods, and the guy who did not, should probably not visually look like he stole the sword of the gods, when he is getting owned by level 1 rarabs.

There shouldn't be a problem to make restrictions with weapons, because the class can only use 1 weapon type anyway. But say there is a gladiator and he stealed the eyeglasses from a god. Later he put his sword away and take a fishing rod. Should he now forget how to wear the godly eyeglasses because he is fishing? He is still the same person who stealed the eyeglasses.
What you mean is maybe to make the godly equip untradable.

[Augury]

in guild wars you couldnt buy gear in a market ward, you had to be able to get to the place where the crafter was, and obtain the items for making it, while you could buy the items, most were drops from appropriately leveled mobs/salavging those drops.
Mostly of course it was getting to the place, some of the makers were in places you could not get to without completing a certain portion of the story. Which basically makes those high level skins, you can only get for achieving great things. And that was fine.

While i am not married to gear and stats being linked, I am married to having high level/rare content reward you visually. It gives you things to work for, and too hunt, even in games with no stats tied to items, the costume unlock items still have a high value. People want to progress, and working towards getting cool looking gear is a big attraction to playing a game.

Its not about alienating newbs, its about making the game overall entertaining, in your system only money would be the ultimate goal, because you can buy everything visual.

I remember in ffxi, because i started early on, quite a few new players were amazed by my appearence, while for me it was a bit ehhhhhh embarassing? From what they told me, seeing a high level monk, when they were a monk, decked out in gear inspired them, and gave them something to aim for. That is immersive. Its just like in a racing game, you look at the cars, people who race well want to have cool cars, and people just starting want to strive to obtain those cars, not just thier stats.

But more important to games is CHOICE. And a high level/experienced player should be able to make the CHOICE to look glowey and ritzy, or it should be viable to dress in a much more moderate manner. The current way MMOs approach gear is to make the high-end things look like the headlights of a mack truck, while the low-end gear looks like a bunch of diapers sewn together. In my opinion, an adventurer shouldn't be ritzy because their gear is good, they should be ritzy because it's characteristic of them, while those who would rather look like a vagabond should. In MMORPGs this choice has been removed- and replaced with the want to have the "1337 gears" which isn't immersion into the fantasy setting but the world itself. If a Monk looks like a tramp, that shouldn't be a result of them being of low skill- it should be a result of my wanting the character to look like a tramp. If my Monk looks like he stepped out of a Deuxenberg and twirled a cane around, it shouldn't be because they're powerful. If my player looks like a strip-joint sign, it should be because of my fetish with neon lights, not because I beat the high level dungeon 30 times. My emphasis is on AESTHETIC choice, more than anything, and in any economic system, the currency IS the most important part (though I think Gil should be the PC to NPC currency of XIV, not the primary PC to PC currency).

[Physic]

But more important to games is CHOICE. And a high level/experienced player should be able to make the CHOICE to look glowey and ritzy, or it should be viable to dress in a much more moderate manner. The current way MMOs approach gear is to make the high-end things look like the headlights of a mack truck, while the low-end gear looks like a bunch of diapers sewn together. In my opinion, an adventurer shouldn't be ritzy because their gear is good, they should be ritzy because it's characteristic of them, while those who would rather look like a vagabond should. In MMORPGs this choice has been removed- and replaced with the want to have the "1337 gears" which isn't immersion into the fantasy setting but the world itself. If a Monk looks like a tramp, that shouldn't be a result of them being of low skill- it should be a result of my wanting the character to look like a tramp. If my Monk looks like he stepped out of a Deuxenberg and twirled a cane around, it shouldn't be because they're powerful. If my player looks like a strip-joint sign, it should be because of my fetish with neon lights, not because I beat the high level dungeon 30 times. My emphasis is on AESTHETIC choice, more than anything, and in any economic system, the currency IS the most important part (though I think Gil should be the PC to NPC currency of XIV, not the primary PC to PC currency).

i have no opposition to being able to select gear below your level, aion had a pretty decent system where once you obtain an item you can make other items look like it

and screw currency, im the dude in ffxi with all the rare ex gear, because im a poor warrior.

[gifthorse]

People are weird, that's the conclusion I have come to.

[Duelle]

Ummm...what on earth was in my comment that you quoted that could possibly be viewed as endorsing mid-combat gear swapping???

Because I said nothing of the sort.

You're right. I jumped the gun there, and for that I apologize. My reading comprehension failed because I thought you were asking for additional inventory to thus facilitate gear-swapping.

But more important to games is CHOICE. And a high level/experienced player should be able to make the CHOICE to look glowey and ritzy, or it should be viable to dress in a much more moderate manner. The current way MMOs approach gear is to make the high-end things look like the headlights of a mack truck, while the low-end gear looks like a bunch of diapers sewn together. In my opinion, an adventurer shouldn't be ritzy because their gear is good, they should be ritzy because it's characteristic of them, while those who would rather look like a vagabond should.

This is definitely something to consider. As a WoW veteran, I can tell you that some of the higher tier gear was on the silly side in terms of design. If every paladin player I knew had a choice in the matter, they would have made the tier 2 paladin set the permanent uniform for our class. By the same token, I've run into fun-looking things here and there that I could not keep because of the need for gear with stats to stay on top of things.

In the context of XIV, it would be nice to be able to keep the "ordinary" look most of the current gear has, even if its relegated to costume slots to put over our "real" gear. You can then look flashy and epic if you want to, while those of us who prefer to look a little more modest can do so as well. Adding more choices for that kind of gear would also be a plus, as we definitely need more tricornes and other nifty hats and such available to us.

[gifthorse]

If you ask me, the fact that people tie their sense of progress and achievement to their lvl and the gear they are permitted to wear is more of a problem than a solution.

[zaviermhigo]

If rank limits on gear could increase class uniqueness and gear uniqueness then I'd be for it, but I don't have enough evidence of direct causality. I just want more unique gear, and for people to feel gear is important. The current system causes people to come to parties as a THM in gear that's just for crafters, they aren't taking the game or the gear seriously, and I don't know if that is the players fault or the developers fault, may be both.

[Dubont]

If you ask me, the fact that people tie their sense of progress and achievement to their lvl and the gear they are permitted to wear is more of a problem than a solution.

good thing no one is asking you.