The anti FFXI job/class comparison thread

[Duelle]

In XIV's system, because everyone has access to the same pool of skills, regardless of class, min/maxers will eventually end up reducing the number of unique builds down to a handful of "standard optimal builds", likely built around filling traditional roles.

This hinges more on how encounters are designed. Granted, class designed is the other half of the puzzle, but encounters and enemy difficulty are also a factor here

The aim should ideally be that a class set up to deal damage should be able to do so in line with what the devs intend to be damage. Otherwise you get things like being MRD for one encounter, but having to switch to PUG for the next encounter, and then change to THM because the next one favors ranged more than melee and so on.

I don't think SE needs to "lose" the openness of its current system. I do think they need to bring in more restrictions on secondary skill use, or, perhaps some enticing and very substantial benefits to combining "like" skills (dd with dd, magic with magic, etc)

I think it should come down to what the coming job system will do to overall playstyles. I'll be happy if a damage set MRD, a damage-set THM and a damage-set LNC are interchangeable for a DD slot in a party without forcing anyone to change classes for a particular task. Not to mention hybrids have to be kept in mind this time around.

[Physic]

Thing is, it's not a black-or-white, "either/or" situation, as some seem to be characterizing it.

I would welcome the flexibility of a system like XIV's... However, I do not welcome it to the extent that identifiable roles fly out the window because everyone can be/do everything at the same time.

That results in one thing: homogenization.

In fact, it would likely lead to even fewer options perceived as "viable" than you saw even in XI, because everyone shares the same overall pool of available skills at the same time. The only differentiating element is what your main class is at a given time.

In XI, for each Job, there was a set of different job/subjob combinations, as well as gear/food setups based on what role you were playing for that particular setup. Some were rather rigid (which was more about people having tunnel-vision than with the game itself). So, for each of the 20 jobs, you had a series of different ways you could play it. Sure, some setups were preferred or even demanded in some circumstances.. but again, that was people trying to keep the game as predictable as possible without deviating from what worked (e.g. what the walkthroughs and guides said).

I have zero doubt that the same scenario will play out in XIV. The only difference is, it'll be even more limiting than in XI. Why? In XI, even if you elected to "follow the online guides" and build out your character by following a template to the letter, you were still playing a job that had a specific playstyle and a defined role, or multiple roles in some cases. If you preferred mages, no matter what your setup, you were always ultimately a Mage, and that's the role you were chosen for. A Mage wouldn't typically be asked to fill a primary melee DPS role (save for some oddball out-of-the-ordinary circumstances).

In XIV's system, because everyone has access to the same pool of skills, regardless of class, min/maxers will eventually end up reducing the number of unique builds down to a handful of "standard optimal builds", likely built around filling traditional roles.

When that happens, I bet people will be wishing XIV had something closer to XI's system, where at least there was more variety by virtue of 20 unique jobs with several possible subjob combos for each, instead of a relative handful of builds due to XIV's setup.

I don't think SE needs to "lose" the openness of its current system. I do think they need to bring in more restrictions on secondary skill use, or, perhaps some enticing and very substantial benefits to combining "like" skills (dd with dd, magic with magic, etc)...

This way, people can still find a playstyle or role they enjoy playing at a given moment... such as in a party, doing a HNM, etc... but still have the flexibility to switch it up if they need, or want to while soloing, etc.

na, i have played straight up freeform games, with no limits at all, and there are a lot of builds, and people are constantly coming up with new ones. Also the time required to get the skills mean some people will never delve into certain things. I dont care if thaum 70 has a great move, im not going to level thaum to 70 to get it for my pug, unless for some reason i really enjoy playing thaum.
Looking at champions online, and guild wars, both have very open systems, champions insanely so, and there is still a ton of unique builds. Sure there a online guides to builds that work for specific stuff, and make it easier, but thats the same thing as any game, the large majority of people in a freeform game do what they want, and enjoy experimenting and adapting thier charachters.
Also with a focus on smaller parties, and small party content, there are different builds, a great build for duoing is not the great build for trio, is not the great build for 8 people. I mean im basically a pugilist first and foremost, im not going to be the ultimate amalgam, but i do enjoy taking a couple skills here and there that enhance my gameplay. And its really good that you can adjust yourself to situations, create a build that is a little more self sufficient if you dont have a healer, for example.

[Mack]

I hardly see anyone asking for the same job system from FFXI but at least a competent battle system not unlike FFXI.

[Punainen]

I agree with OP. I'm very happy with the new class system, I don't want this to be FFXI-2. I want more class uniqueness, but I don't want a complete lack of customization with linear progress. The current system is great, they just need to tweak it.