The anti FFXI job/class comparison thread

[Physic]

I have to disagree there. If anything, progression was one of FFXI's strongest qualities. Not all weapon skills were the same either, as only a few weapons got MP drain, damage based on HP, added effects, 4x damage, etc. I mean you could say "Oh, rampage is 5 hits and so is penta thrust" but the variety in weapon skill properties was pretty large. As for weak execution of jobs, I'd only agree with Warrior and Monk. Boring auto-attack jobs, but the rest are great. Especially the ToAU/WoTG jobs.

warrior monk dragoon ninja dark sam thief, for most of thier ffxi life were all basically the same. They did a lot of retooling of dark, and sam and drg late in the game to give them some type of flavor, but how war and monk are is basically how every DD was.
mp drain was unique, and damage based on hp, but mpdrain was almost never used, who got 4x damage skills?

I dont know what you mean by weapon skill properties, most weaponskills all did the same crap, some were elemental, but those usually underperformed, and were generally ignored.

you may be used to the ffxi jobs that came after the 5 year mark, when they made dark drg and sam more distinctive, orginally sam got, store tp, meditate, third eye (1 dodge at that time) thats it i think. oh yeah warding circle, which was even less useful than it is now. and it got nothing after 30, yup nothing. that was for lets say 3-4 years, because it didnt come out till zilart.
FFXI is not the measure of entertaining battle by far

blm who sat for 90% of the fight, to get up and do one skill per mob.
rdm relegated to refresh whore, and debuffer in the first 10 seconds of the fight for most of thier life.

this is a great battle system? really? you want to recreate this?

[Kallera]

I have to disagree there. If anything, progression was one of FFXI's strongest qualities. Not all weapon skills were the same either, as only a few weapons got MP drain, damage based on HP, added effects, 4x damage, etc. I mean you could say "Oh, rampage is 5 hits and so is penta thrust" but the variety in weapon skill properties was pretty large. As for weak execution of jobs, I'd only agree with Warrior and Monk. Boring auto-attack jobs, but the rest are great. Especially the ToAU/WoTG jobs.

Ffxiv has similar variety with each weapons's different attacks. And they are still revamping the system further.

[Demacia]

warrior monk dragoon ninja dark sam thief, for most of thier ffxi life were all basically the same. They did a lot of retooling of dark, and sam and drg late in the game to give them some type of flavor, but how war and monk are is basically how every DD was.
mp drain was unique, and damage based on hp, but mpdrain was almost never used, who got 4x damage skills?

I dont know what you mean by weapon skill properties, most weaponskills all did the same crap, some were elemental, but those usually underperformed, and were generally ignored.

you may be used to the ffxi jobs that came after the 5 year mark, when they made dark drg and sam more distinctive, orginally sam got, store tp, meditate, third eye (1 dodge at that time) thats it i think. oh yeah warding circle, which was even less useful than it is now. and it got nothing after 30, yup nothing. that was for lets say 3-4 years, because it didnt come out till zilart.
FFXI is not the measure of entertaining battle by far

I started in Jan 2004 and my first job to 75 was SAM (pre-hasso/seigan), so I do know what you're getting at. Ninja and Thief were unique you can't say they were anything like the other jobs but the heavy DDs would be pretty boring if it weren't for the subjob system. MP drain was used often outside of exp parties, Slug shot/sidewinder was low accuracy 4x damage with acc based on TP, and by weapon skill properties I mean they often have different skillchain properties, additional effects, and damage modifiers. You used different equipment for certain weapon skills to increase damage, and many had added effects for example: GA's break lowering evasion, Blade: retsu being the lowest level paralyze WS, leg sweep causing bind, tachi: yukikaze causing blindness, guillotine being heavy damage AND silence, etc. Yeah a lot of weapon skills were the typical stun/elemental/ignores defense at early levels but later on they definitely start to branch out.

FFXI's battle system wasn't fast paced (unless you played COR), but it certainly had depth that XIV's battle system currently lacks. What was detrimental to XI's battle was ToAU's release and the fact that skillchaining became obsolete.

[Physic]

I started in Jan 2004 and my first job to 75 was SAM (pre-hasso/seigan), so I do know what you're getting at. Ninja and Thief were unique you can't say they were anything like the other jobs but the heavy DDs would be pretty boring if it weren't for the subjob system. MP drain was used often outside of exp parties, Slug shot/sidewinder was low accuracy 4x damage with acc based on TP, and by weapon skill properties I mean they often have different skillchain properties, additional effects, and damage modifiers. You used different equipment for certain weapon skills to increase damage, and many had added effects for example: GA's break lowering evasion, Blade: retsu being the lowest level paralyze WS, leg sweep causing bind, tachi: yukikaze causing blindness, guillotine being heavy damage AND silence, etc. Yeah a lot of weapon skills were the typical stun/elemental/ignores defense at early levels but later on they definitely start to branch out.

FFXI's battle system wasn't fast paced (unless you played COR), but it certainly had depth that XIV's battle system currently lacks. What was detrimental to XI's battle was ToAU's release and the fact that skillchaining became obsolete.

imo the problem with ffxi battle was there was virtually no personal depth, if you were quad boxing it would probably be highly entertaining, but when you break down what each player spends thier time doing, it was pretty bad.

auto attack, weapon skill for all DD, you had a basically two flavors of DD sneak attack, and berserk/double attack, i chose sneak attack for most of my monk carreer because it was more entertaining, but it was the same choice and play style for virtually all the DD, meditate was a slightly different mechanic, but it was 1/3 minutes and only a main sam could actually get a self skillchain.
ninja may have been unique, if it didnt become an utsusemi whore, but we will never know now. btw tanking was essentially DD with provoke and/or blink thrown in.

Im simplifying here, but it was really repetetive, and monotonous for each player. you did the exact same thing over and over again, which really wasnt too complex.
I may make it sound bad, i did enjoy the game, but it wasnt because the battle was gripping, i remember telling a friend that RO had much more entertaining battles, and that game was pretty old and dated at the time.

ffxi had good milestones, it had an interesting world, cool gears (high level anyhow) Im not saying it wasnt a good game, but that, imo was not entertaining battle, and i was really dissapointed with how little playstyle was different for most classes.

here you can say cross classing makes you not unique, but the play of a straight pugilist with no cross class is way more entertaining than a monk, lancer will totally eclipse dragoon if it ever gets jump, gladiator, with guard, phalanx, various shield skills, man that is waaaaaay more engaging than paladins, auto attack with provokes and flashes thrown in. avoidable WS, even when you are solo! lancer actually having superior range/ multi hit line attacks? this system is wayyyy more engaging and deep per player, and its in its first level cap, without even a major update.

[Demacia]

imo the problem with ffxi battle was there was virtually no personal depth, if you were quad boxing it would probably be highly entertaining, but when you break down what each player spends thier time doing, it was pretty bad.

auto attack, weapon skill for all DD, you had a basically two flavors of DD sneak attack, and berserk/double attack, i chose sneak attack for most of my monk carreer because it was more entertaining, but it was the same choice and play style for virtually all the DD, meditate was a slightly different mechanic, but it was 1/3 minutes and only a main sam could actually get a self skillchain.
ninja may have been unique, if it didnt become an utsusemi whore, but we will never know now. btw tanking was essentially DD with provoke and/or blink thrown in.

Im simplifying here, but it was really repetetive, and monotonous for each player. you did the exact same thing over and over again, which really wasnt too complex.
I may make it sound bad, i did enjoy the game, but it wasnt because the battle was gripping, i remember telling a friend that RO had much more entertaining battles, and that game was pretty old and dated at the time.

ffxi had good milestones, it had an interesting world, cool gears (high level anyhow) Im not saying it wasnt a good game, but that, imo was not entertaining battle, and i was really dissapointed with how little playstyle was different for most classes.

here you can say cross classing makes you not unique, but the play of a straight pugilist with no cross class is way more entertaining than a monk, lancer will totally eclipse dragoon if it ever gets jump, gladiator, with guard, phalanx, various shield skills, man that is waaaaaay more engaging than paladins, auto attack with provokes and flashes thrown in. avoidable WS, even when you are solo! lancer actually having superior range/ multi hit line attacks? this system is wayyyy more engaging and deep per player, and its in its first level cap, without even a major update.

Pugilist is actually the only class they did RIGHT in FFXIV. Waaaaay more fun than XI's MNK (I just wish they could kick). Have to disagree with Gladiator though, just lots of easy enmity options + phalanx spam in comparison to JA/Cure enmity, cover, flash, /NIN, /RDM, etc. DRG is only cool if you sub /WHM or /BLM and I honestly think LNC is the lamest DoW in XIV. DDs are for the most part, boring though. Tanking keeps you on your toes and support keeps you busy all the time. I couldn't even keep up with RDM/NIN play with the amount of macroing involved.

Some combat situations were just way more interesting than others. Example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egs_MSsNSfI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qn56c...eature=related

[Cairdeas]

I used to come up with interesting combinations to really test myself in the Job System in XI.


My favorites were things like

Monk/Drg
Sam/Dnc
War/Dnc
Whm/Pld
Blu/Pld

None of these were ever that popular for parties. But I actually Main Healed for BCNM's as a Sam/Dnc.

Pugilist is actually the only class they did RIGHT in FFXIV. Waaaaay more fun than XI's MNK (I just wish they could kick).

Pugilist is a Fist fighter so there is no reason for them to have kick attacks. Once the Job system goes in Monk could have a job trait that gives them kick attacks.

[Physic]

Pugilist is actually the only class they did RIGHT in FFXIV. Waaaaay more fun than XI's MNK (I just wish they could kick). Have to disagree with Gladiator though, just lots of easy enmity options + phalanx spam in comparison to JA/Cure enmity, cover, flash, /NIN, /RDM, etc. DRG is only cool if you sub /WHM or /BLM and I honestly think LNC is the lamest DoW in XIV. DDs are for the most part, boring though. Tanking keeps you on your toes and support keeps you busy all the time. I couldn't even keep up with RDM/NIN play with the amount of macroing involved.

Some combat situations were just way more interesting than others. Example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egs_MSsNSfI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qn56c...eature=related

macroing, man i hated that mechanic that came to be, having to wear like 300 different gears to be effective is kind of ehhhh, actually customizing was interesting though.

also stuff in that vid is after like 6 years of tweaks, and even then the video is sped up and edited, i have had fights like than in ffxiv with like, regular mobs. and the game is just starting, we are just scratching the surface, we dont even know how musketeer and arcanist fit in, people say they ve seen bard and fencer stuff in the dats as well. Every new discipline in this system opens up whole new possibilities, and the ones we have are in there lowest, weakest incarnation.

anyhow far as lancer, i didnt really see the benefit till i fought more mob parties, and realized how much easier it is to use positioning to your advantage. Its main thing missing is jump/or onrush which is supposed to close the gap, and therefore an excellent movement skill, being able to run from an aoe, then instantly jump back in, is hot, also being able to chase a mob down with jump, then bind it with heavy strike, stand out of melee range and unleash a doomspike, come on, that has potential.

[Captaindownsyndrome]

I used to come up with interesting combinations to really test myself in the Job System in XI.


My favorites were things like

Monk/Drg
Sam/Dnc
War/Dnc
Whm/Pld
Blu/Pld

None of these were ever that popular for parties. But I actually Main Healed for BCNM's as a Sam/Dnc.




Pugilist is a Fist fighter so there is no reason for them to have kick attacks. Once the Job system goes in Monk could have a job trait that gives them kick attacks.

They could meet in middle and make it were the skills you put on your pc will be half the rank of your main class that active meaning if you are a rank 40 lancer you only add skills that rank 20 lower form other classes

[Demacia]

macroing, man i hated that mechanic that came to be, having to wear like 300 different gears to be effective is kind of ehhhh, actually customizing was interesting though.

also stuff in that vid is after like 6 years of tweaks, and even then the video is sped up and edited, i have had fights like than in ffxiv with like, regular mobs. and the game is just starting, we are just scratching the surface, we dont even know how musketeer and arcanist fit in, people say they ve seen bard and fencer stuff in the dats as well. Every new discipline in this system opens up whole new possibilities, and the ones we have are in there lowest, weakest incarnation.

anyhow far as lancer, i didnt really see the benefit till i fought more mob parties, and realized how much easier it is to use positioning to your advantage. Its main thing missing is jump/or onrush which is supposed to close the gap, and therefore an excellent movement skill, being able to run from an aoe, then instantly jump back in, is hot, also being able to chase a mob down with jump, then bind it with heavy strike, stand out of melee range and unleash a doomspike, come on, that has potential.

First vid is sped up a lot yeah, but second one only a tiny bit to make it fit on youtube. Atm there are no fights in XIV even close to Fiat Lux (that's okay though, Fiat lux came out years after in XI). As for LNC, I just think it's really boring (just like DRG was). PUG tanking focused on evasion with jarring strike/Marauder's 250 TP parry move/Feint is the ONLY real fun I have playing FFXIV. Evading + stunning + free damage all day errday and I actually have to pay attention. Kinda wish I got it to 50 just for Simian Thrash but there's just way too much grind and not enough fun for me to stick with it.

[Yisi]

It's really nice to see the forums used for discussion, instead of flaming. Just wanted to thank everyone for that.

I guess when it comes down to it EVERY mmo needs defined roles for players to fill, my point is that I would much rather be the one to customize my character in whatever way I want to fill that role, instead of game developers or the online comunity telling me how I have to build a character.