Yoshi P talks about Warriors- from Producer Letter Live @ TGS

[Xariann]

The reason is when you get to endgame, the bar raises significantly and the endgame gear provided by Tokens does not actually upgrade WAR to the level of the endgame content. So people think that WAR is broken when they've geared wrong.

Not only have they geared wrong but they may have specced wrong and may be playing incorrectly.

It could be anything, but yeah I'm playing WAR as a Critical hit Buffed tank and I deal heavier damage than I take, in fact, when I'm holding Wrath V and I use Internal release the amount of critical hits likely hits the 40% range, but I need to test some more.

If you're a WAR, you need to do two things, deal a lot of damage in a short period of time and heal up a lot of HP and deal a lot of damage.

Because people's IBs are not critting, their damage is not critting, the think that WAR is weak and squishy. But I think... WAR is "very strong".

But to get "very strong'. you have to spend a lot of gil and effort and people think that WAR should be like PLD, all easy mode with 0 effort.

But it's not. IF you want to deal 1.5 more damage as WAR to get it ready for endgame to the point that it's a MT in coil you have to spend gil you have to craft and you have to do all he uncool things that have little to do with dungeons.




You can use Darklight Armor with with WAR but I don't recommend any other Darklight. Darksteel HQ is far better.

This is a huge thread but I hope you see this, I was just reading a heated discussion about someone saying that you can't have Inner Beast + Infuriate up every time Titan does his big move. So can you tell me if the crit would actually help with this, as all you need to have would be an Inner Beast that crits, rather than IB + Inf + IB?

[HiirNoivl]

This is a huge thread but I hope you see this, I was just reading a heated discussion about someone saying that you can't have Inner Beast + Infuriate up every time Titan does his big move. So can you tell me if the crit would actually help with this, as all you need to have would be an Inner Beast that crits, rather than IB + Inf + IB?

If you have your Crit Rate up where it needs to be, yeah. Your Inner Beast should be critting over 2k Which is about 1/3rd your HP. If you use it with Berserk it can be close to 3k. Still, if your healers are good, hold Wrath V until after Mountain Buster and let your healers cure you for that phase unless you see they need help then use Inner Beast if you think they're struggling. The 15% cure buff should be enough unless they are slow or gaoled. Use Vengeance + Bloodbath (Vengeance does Crit) When the stomps start to become an issue before Mountain Buster.

IB + Infuriate + IB is just a huge, holy cow I'm going to die move... Where are your healers? Why do you feel the need to do this? Mitigating damage is what you need to be doing. Wrath V 15% is fine when your DPS doesn't suffer for holding it. I used to be anti-holding but now I'm doing so much better with the Critical Hit Rate Buff I suddenly like it.

It's possible to self cure away a Mountain Buster, but you shouldn't have to.

************

My answer is boiling down to: Quit wearing PLD gear on WAR and saying WAR sucks.

There is a difference between PLD gear on WAR. It's like wearing WHM gear on BLM and complaining that you're not doing any damage.

Quit begging for an easy button. It just looks bad.

[Kyzr]

Hiir, your answers all boil down to: "Have better gear than the PLD."

If you can't see how ridiculous that sentiment is, there's nothing any of us can do or say that will convince you.

No tanking rotation should be based on crit chance. If a group has to choose between a tank that "sometimes" works, and one that always will, you're naive if you think they'll chose RNG.

[Xariann]

If you have your Crit Rate up where it needs to be, yeah. Your Inner Beast should be critting over 2k Which is about 1/3rd your HP. If you use it with Berserk it can be close to 3k. Still, if your healers are good, hold Wrath V until after Mountain Buster and let your healers cure you for that phase unless you see they need help then use Inner Beast if you think they're struggling. The 15% cure buff should be enough unless they are slow or gaoled. Use Vengeance + Bloodbath (Vengeance does Crit) When the stomps start to become an issue before Mountain Buster.

IB + Infuriate + IB is just a huge, holy cow I'm going to die move... Where are your healers? Why do you feel the need to do this? Mitigating damage is what you need to be doing. Wrath V 15% is fine when your DPS doesn't suffer for holding it. I used to be anti-holding but now I'm doing so much better with the Critical Hit Rate Buff I suddenly like it.

It's possible to self cure away a Mountain Buster, but you shouldn't have to.

My answer is boiling down to: Quit wearing PLD gear on WAR and saying WAR sucks.

There is a difference between PLD gear on WAR. It's like wearing WHM gear on BLM and complaining that you're not doing any damage.

Not using Inner Beast unless your healers struggle doesn't make you easier to heal though. If I am doing more damage through crit and then I am not using that crit with Inner Beast, what's the point of having more damage? Blood Bath I guess, but the CD on Blood Bath is longer than Infuriate, so from this response, I can't see how Crit makes me a better TANK, for Titan at least. It makes me a better damage dealer.

[Rios-Drakoon]

Guys, really, now we talk about Equip?
Waht is really "Warrior Eqiup" and what is "Paladin Equip"?

Lets say, i use dmg Equip, so my defense goes down, my HP goes down, but my dmg will increase. but still, because we use Defiance Tank stance, our dmg still sucks.

The whole Problem is, that our Skills "Bloodbath, StormsPath and Inner Beast" scales with dmg, and thats just wrong.

My HP has Increast from fresh 50 til now from 5500 to 6800HP. but my dmg didnt increased taht much that i can say "Bloodbath, StormsPath" heals good.

Aslong SE dont Change Bloodbath, Stormspath and IB into max% HP, we will be just second class Tank.

Increase Bloodbath to 3% max HP selfheal per hit
Stormspath to 10% max HP Selfheal per hit
IB to 25-30% max HP Selfheal.

maybee u think These Numbers OP, but get a closer look, Paladin can use 20% dmg reduce, 40% dmg reduce, 100%dmg reduce and Blockchance 60% (Block reduce dmg about 20-24%)

So, a Warrior has 7000HP, with bloodbath he heal himself with 210 per hit, 30sec 90sec CD, Stormspath witch is our last Combo skill heals for 700 (3combos Need 10sec.)
IB should be a better heal then right now, because ist not spaamable and we Need do build up 5 stacks first so like 20sec. so all 20sec we could heal us for 1750-2100

Thats not OP, but we Need stronger selfheal or we are never on the Level from Paladin with all his dmg reduce abilities.

And pls, all the Paladinfanboys out there, spaare me the jokes about "Warrior can be a good offtank", Offtank for what? why should a Group choose Warrior as MT or OT if a Paladin is easier to heal?

[HiirNoivl]

Not using Inner Beast unless your healers struggle doesn't make you easier to heal though.

Actually it does.


I made a post about it on my blog and it's been posted all over this thread and all over this forum. If you don't have a strong enough Inner Beast, if you use your Inner Beast it will result in a LOSS of potential HP every time. I thought that this was the wrong way to view things, and I posted as such. Why did I feel this way? Because I was concerned about the loss of DPS that occurs when you don't use your Wrath. I felt that if you held Wrath V, you lost so much DPS that you were nothing more than a worse PLD.

In one way I was right, but in another away I was wrong. Dead wrong.

While it's true that Wrath V holds the key to some of our hardest hitting moves, it also holds the key to our mitigation as WARs. That 15% curing potency upgrade is nothing to sniff at. Even if you hit a 1500 Inner Beast, you result in a loss of -96 HP as posted in an eye opening thread. In my blog, and on my twitter I said, "Guys, we as WARs have to overcome this threshold. If your DPS does not rise to the level of making that Inner Beast a positive GAIN on HP, you will never be good at your Job."

That's why I started looking into Crit. The ONLY WAY to make that Inner Beast worth it is to Crit that thing (Or use Berserk). Little did I know that my Crit Rate would receive such an extreme lift by Wrath V as well. To the point where my Crit Rate effectively Doubles without even using Internal Release.

I've changed my tune about Wrath V in a complete 180. You do more DPS (far more) when you hold Wrath, than when you release it. Granted, when you think about how much a crit is (1.5x normal damage) You're essentially hitting a Berserk hit, without using Berserk. That's why you can see on my parse screenie that I'm hitting so hard.

Don't think it's RNG. Parsing Averages and DPs numbers are not Random. Far from it.

[HiirNoivl]

What happens if I don't Crit? My DPS still goes up. That's what happens when every hit in 4 is does 50% more damage.

And people think I'm bad at math. IF you need a Guaranteed Crit just use Berserk and you'll hit a Guaranteed Crit. lol That's what Berserk is there for.

There are you satisfied?

No, people who are calling for an upgrade to WAR are the ones that need to just stop and go back and figure out what they're doing wrong.

To quote Yoshi P: "You haven't researched enough."

[Kyzr]

What happens if I don't Crit? My DPS still goes up. That's what happens when every hit in 4 is does 50% more damage.

And people think I'm bad at math.

You don't know that <100% doesn't equal 100%. You are bad at math.

Not to mention, your trying to make the case that a 25% crit chance being the difference between surviving burst or dying, is in some convoluted universe, a good design decision. I mean, I think SE is ~kinda~ retarded, but I have 100% (read: Not RNG) confidence they're not THAT dumb.

[HiirNoivl]

Actually if you Crit a Berserked Inner Beast you do >100% more damage...

Just using 1000 as an example.

Normal Inner beast: 1000
Berserked Inner Beast: 1500
Berserked Inner Beast Crit: 2250

You have a greater chance on Inner Beast having a Crit than you do on anything else.

1.5x more damage obviously doesn't mean a flat 1.5 more damage. You have other buffs like Maim, Storm's Eye, and Berserk that allow you to hit more and these all stack.

Normal Inner Beast: 1000
Normal Inner Beast + Maim: 1200
Normal Inner Beast + Maim and Storm's Eye: 1320
Normal Inner Beast + Maim and Storm's Eye and Berserk: 1980
Normal Inner Beast + Maim and Storm's Eye and Berserk Crit: 2970

Wow, like magic.

[Faction]

This will result in the best garuda kill yet!