Yoshi P talks about Warriors- from Producer Letter Live @ TGS

[Kaalan]

Stop bashing a positive Warrior? Im having no issues as he says. I feel i am superior to PLD When i tank as well. Just because you dont like the job and do horrible at it means the rest of us proper warriors have to suffer?

Yeah ?

tanking Cancer and take hate in a single combo using Unchained. All the provokes in the world couldn't give it back.

Please go back on stun duty so I can turn a 15 min fight into a 10 minute one.

Now I'm a MT for single target that actually does damage on par with a Dragoon with a relic spear.

There's being positive and delusional.

And I'm doing very fine with WAR thank you for your concern. But refusing to admit that we are hindering any party that could've picked a PLD instead is both selfish and stupid.

[Ragz]

This post is laced with "all I've done are AK runs and CM runs.", you truly think you are superior? How about actually hitting content that shows the huge differences between PLD and WAR aka Titan HM.

I've tanked Titan as WAR, and does it as well as PLD with relic +1. The only thing to watch out is to time Thrill / IB with Mountain Buster. PLD could randomly die from crit Mountain Buster / bomb combo but with double IB it's pretty safe for WAR.

[Delorean]

AK, Ifrit and Garuda aren't endgame content to you? Has to just be Coil and HM Titan?

No.

2 boss fights that are literally easier than some of the earlier dungeons in this game and 2 of the easiest dungeons in the game are not endgame content. Calling Ifrit, Garuda, AK and WP endgame is like saying World of Warcraft PvE is about running heroic dungeons. This content presents no challenge.

Though, with how you are rewarded for your time, im not sure that i'd want WP or AK to be more difficult.

Yoshi P says to do research so Research I do! ^o^

well i hate to interrupt your epiphany

but this was my first and only choice for theoretical optimization, but im glad it took you a month to realize what others have known for a month so that you can come to the forums and tell us all how whiny and bad we are at WAR and just need to do more research.

PLD could randomly die from crit Mountain Buster / bomb combo

should have hit that immune or sentinel, player problem

[antiviolence]

Stop bashing a positive Warrior? Im having no issues as he says. I feel i am superior to PLD When i tank as well. Just because you dont like the job and do horrible at it means the rest of us proper warriors have to suffer?

You're a level 35 WAR... no one in these 41 pages said that playing a WAR and tanking dungeons is impossible.
C'mon guys..

[Hitokirinomad]

Except I'm not massively Overgeared (Except my Relic) I'm still in level 70 gear.

You are also basing your effectiveness on Garuda and Demon Wall. And you still note that your gear is *better* than the Paladin needs to do the same content. How have you done, as a Warrior, main tanking, with your crit setup...in Coil?

[Ragz]

One thing though is that WHM should spam Stoneskin on WAR rather than try to cure them. Stoneskin is 1500 hp. I've done Garuda where my HP was never once dipped under 7000 except during Astral Flow.

[HiirNoivl]

LOL I already knew all this!

I'm sure that there are some that figured it out even before you. I'm glad that you are also experimenting but I'm not interested in fighting over who knew first what will be eventually common knowlege.

One thing though is that WHM should spam Stoneskin on WAR rather than try to cure them. Stoneskin is 1500 hp. I've done Garuda where my HP was never once dipped under 7000 except during Astral Flow.

Yes this is very good advice.

You are also basing your effectiveness on Garuda and Demon Wall. And you still note that your gear is *better* than the Paladin needs to do the same content. How have you done, as a Warrior, main tanking, with your crit setup...in Coil?

I have only had this set up for a day. Results are pending. My gear is not better than Paladins. Paladins wear gear that are optimized for their job so they are more successful. I'm starting to think that Yoshi P is correct. People think PLDs are better now because they are wearing PLD optimal gear on WAR and WAR sucks with PLD optimal Gear. Once WARs start gearing for their job, then WAR will start to outshine PLD.

This brings up other questions. Mainly how worthwhile stacking Skill Speed would be. I've mentioned one potential help to WAR being increasing frequency of attacks, but I figure it would require an obscene amount of Skill Speed to reduce the GCD to a point where you could spam attacks to heal yourself to counteract damage (not taking unlucky crits and heavy auto-attacks into account). There's also TP regeneration to keep in mind, as lower GCDs means you're using TP faster than it replenishes (though I guess all that does is make you extremely dependent on bards).

I tried this and while results were good, it was just not practical. You need to have a SCH that uses Fey Light on you for you to REALLY take off like a Rocket. Other than that, too many situations came up that ruined the effect that SkSp had.

You will sprinkle your gear with SkSp as a matter of course, but I feel that SkSp is more of a DD job thing and is not actually needed on a WAR that hits 1.5x damage Crits regularly.

[Kitru]

1) "Because you're acting as if PLD and WAR have the same base damage before multipliers, which they do not. A WAR has a fair deal *less* damage pre-multipliers because PLD has Circle of Scorn and Spirits Within." Do you even consider the stats of Shield Oath?

Do you even know how math works? I referred to *base damage*. As in, damage as would be dealt before modifiers are included. Shield Oath is a modifier.

And, yes, I do. If you ever bothered to look at the math I did? Hell, you were quoting the post it's in, and yet somehow missed on the more important stuff. If you want to know if I included a given modifier, *check the numbers*.

2) "PLD (without WAR) & PLD (with WAR)"
Your calculation is weird, explain to me what's the meaning of PLD(with WAR) Are you referring Cross Class Skills? And what skills from WAR that a PLD will use?

Once again, I explained that in the post. If you read it rather than simply ignoring half of what was going on, you'd realize that it refers to a PLD running alongside a WAR rather than tanking a target without a WAR present. This is why that the only difference is the '/.9' modifier, which is what's provided by Storm's Eye, a slashing damage debuff that increases the damage on a target of both WAR and PLD.

4) "Maim is a 20% increase in damage on a permanent basis. Storm's Eye is a ~11.1% (1/.9) increase in damage dealt, but it applies to both PLD and WAR if there is a WAR present." You expect a PLD to equip with heavy swing + Maim just to get a 20% more damage?

Are you ignorant of basic grammatical principles *and* fundamental logic? Are you completely ignorant of how math actually works (because, if you did, you could check this and see that I didn't give PLD a 1.2 modifier)? Maim is referenced in a separate sentence. The statement that "it applies to both PLD and WAR if there is a WAR present" refers only to Storm's Eye, which is the only intelligent way to interpret that unless you just don't know basic concepts like punctuation.

The only questions in my post are those that you come up with by not knowing what you're talking about. 99% of the people that try to pick apart my math are the most incompetent people I've ever endured. You don't just know know *math*; you don't even know *English* or basic logic. What are you, an art major?

[Wangstrong]

One thing though is that WHM should spam Stoneskin on WAR rather than try to cure them. Stoneskin is 1500 hp. I've done Garuda where my HP was never once dipped under 7000 except during Astral Flow.

No they shouldn't. That's the ultimate newbie theory. It was disproven on day one when rational people pointed out that 1) you can't put out proper "healing" by spamming Stoneskin except in easy content, 2) the spell is less effective on a warrior than on a paladin, and 3) it costs more mana than healing spells for less effective healing. I honestly thought we had moved beyond "Stoneskin is great on warriors!" theories by now. It's a pre-buff, not a substitute for healing spells.

[Kyzr]

One thing though is that WHM should spam Stoneskin on WAR rather than try to cure them. Stoneskin is 1500 hp. I've done Garuda where my HP was never once dipped under 7000 except during Astral Flow.

Again, as in the other thread, what WAR has 8300hp (1500 / 0.18) without their Relic? Average Warriors are sitting between 6500hp and 7000hp, which are 1170-1260 Stoneskins, not 1500. Did you travel back in time with your Bravura+1 to get your Bravura? We're not saying HM Titan is impossible with WAR, it's just significantly harder and requires insanely better gear; Comparatively to a PLD.

For the record, Stoneskin is not a miracle solve-all to WAR, because it's not really much better than it is for PLD. A 7khp WAR is probably gear-par with a 4.9k PLD (about 30% less, seems to be normal).

7000 * 0.18 = 1260
4900 * 0.18 = 882

Assume each tank takes a hit that reduces the stoneskin to 0? Obviously the WAR is hit for 1260, but the PLD actually takes (882 / 0.8) 1102.5. How much less is that? (1102.5 / 1260) It's 12.5%. Since you can ignore parry and Foresight as differences (they both have them), what about PLD's CDs being in place for Stoneskin?

Rampart (-20% or *0.8) = 1102.5 / 0.8 = 1378
Sentinel (-40% or *0.6) = 1102.5 / 0.6 = 1838

Add in the Block advantage (22-26%), and what you see is that stoneskin only better for WAR when everything goes wrong for the PLD, and even then it's only worse by 12.5%