What happened to the Ascians???

[Enkidoh]

There is definetely a hierachy/status tree amongst the Ascians - Lahabrea is referred to by Alphinaud as being 'an overlord', although he didn't elaborate on exactly what that meant other than the markings on Lahabrea's robe 'attesting to that'. As well, the player encounters several Ascians who are not referred to by their names, but simply by titles: 'Ascian of the Twelfth Sword', 'Ascian of the Twelfth Staff', 'Ascian of the Twelfth Chalice' etc. Which also seemed interesting - 'sword', 'staff' and 'chalice' seemed to suggest that their ranking is based on playing cards. Of course this could simply be flavour text, but it does give a possible clue as to their structure and 'society', if any.

[RolandDebreton]

There were 11 Scions of Light in FFXII (I have no illusions these are the same beings only an archetype of essence) - and if I counted my feet correctly in the famed "Zodiark reveal scene," at the end of A Realm Reborn 2.0 Main scenario - there were 11 named "overlords" standing there in identical robes.

Thank you Enkidoh, for the reminder on the "overlord" title. I kept seeing it being used but didn't remember anyone saying so. The reminder about Alphinaud was helpful.

Me thinks that I need to get through Summoner and possibly Scholar (presently level 39 I believe). I'm guessing I'm missing some serious insight on ascians from those quests.

[Enkidoh]

Spoilers for the SMN quest line, but

you only see an Ascian in the SMN quest line at the very end - an unnamed 'Ascian of the Twelfth Chalice'. You don't see him again. None of the SCH quests involve the Ascians though (unless the 'sickness from the sea' which creates tonberries was created by them, which I doubt).

[Anonymoose]

Which also seemed interesting - 'sword', 'staff' and 'chalice' seemed to suggest that their ranking is based on playing cards.

I'm still at a loss for whether their names are connected to the Italian tarot or the Masonic / Golden Dawn contributions to modern mythology of magick. In tarot, the suits only go up to ten, after all. They also tend to have a lot of different names ("cups," "wands," "rods," etc.) whereas "Sword," "Chalice," and "Staff" are specifically the names used for the ritual tools attributed to contemporary rituals - and are the same tools seen on the Major Arcana card The Magician.

Looking at the page for FFXII's espers, I'm wondering if the description isn't a clue for FFXIV:

“Beings of strange form and appearance made by the gods in ancient times. Favored with great strength and intellect, the Espers knew power far beyond that of men, but their power made them proud, and at length they sought to challenge the gods. Seeing this, the gods were angered and struck down their blessed children, and binding their souls and flesh with the Glyph of the Beast, they stole their freedom for all eternity. Now they are bound to live only when summoned by their Glyph, to serve whosoever called them forth.”

A rival theory to the one I've been playing with for a while might be that the primals were indeed created by something we might call gods once upon a time but sealed in the lifestream, only able leave it when summoned by those who were indoctrinated into worshipping their power. We do see a glyph when Ifrit is summoned. Still, that's just taking a paragraph from another game and twisting it to fit what we already know about Eorzea - that's not exactly sound logic considering we don't have many other clues, so we'll shelve that for now. Anyway, back to the Twelfth _______ thing.

#) Scion of Darkness & Scion of Light of Element (Representing)

01) Belias, the Gigas & Loghrif, the Transcendent of Fire (Aries, the Ram)
02) Chaos, Walker of the Wheel & Mitron, the Chastiser of Wind (Taurus, the Bull)
03) Zalera, the Death Seraph & Emet-Selch, Angel of Truth of Death (Gemini, the Twins)
04) Zeromus, the Condemner & Pashtarot, Knight-Star of Gravity (Cancer, the Crab)
05) Hashmal, Bringer of Order & Fandaniel, the Protector of Earth (Leo, the Lion)
AA) Ultima, the High Seraph of Holy (Virgo, the Virgin)
06) Exodus, the Judge-Sal & Halmarut, the Arbiter of Aether (Libra, the Scales)
07) Cúchulainn, the Impure & Nabriales, the Majestic of Poison (Scorpio, the Scorpion)
08) Shemhazai, the Whisperer & Igeyorhm, the Martyr of Soul (Sagittarius, the Archer)
09) Adrammelech, the Wroth & Deudalaphon, the Benevolent of Thunder (Capricorn, the Goat)
10) Famfrit, the Darkening Cloud & Emmerololth, Holy Queen of Water (Aquarius, the Water Bearer)
11) Mateus, the Corrupt & Lahabrea, Abyssal Celebrant of Ice (Pisces, the Fish)
BB) Zodiark, Keeper of Precepts of Darkness (Ophiuchus, the Snake Bearer)

Removing Zodiark and Ultima from that list nets you eleven, and because Ultima is, in FFXIV, associated with Zodiark's power, it'd be fair to combine them into one concept and name them the twelfth. So, yeah, I guess that'd be a possible basis for the Ascian of the Twelfth ______, with the magickal tool names perhaps representing their grouping somehow?... Any of this giving anybody new ideas?

Moreover, we now know that Belias is just an elder primal similar to Ifrit, so perhaps the Scions of Darkness and Light are no longer associated with one another in the same way in this canon.

[Enkidoh]

Well, I'm liable to agree with your last point more than anything - that SE (or rather, Ferne) are just using the Ascian names in a round-about way without directly connecting them to their FFXII Esper/Scion counterparts - after all, it must be remembered that the FFXII Espers at the least, were virtually all either a, names of final bosses from past FF games (Chaos, Mateus, Zeromus, Exodus), b, names of the Zodiac Braves/Lucavi demons from FF Tactics (Belias, Hashmal, Ultima, Cuchulainn, Adrammelech, Zalera and technically Zodiark), or c, a Totema from FF Tactics Advance (Famfrit). In fact, the only Esper who wasn't a name reference from a past FF game was Shemhazzi.

As for the Scions, besides Lahabrea and Eldibius, the final scene of the ending for the 2.0 storyline also revealed Pashtatot, Igeyorhm and Nabriales, and showed many more Ascians as well, so it's likely all of them take the name of the FFXII Scions of Light in one way or another. But so far your guess is as good as mine associating an Ascian with it's FFXII namesake as far as the FFXII Esper/Scion concept is concerned.