Something about the incoming PvP that really disturbs me. The names. Fresh meat.

[Balaur]

I remember in FFXI you could force people to lock on to you with voke. PVP in FFXIV is going to really need something like that to protect the squishies.

Supposedly, PvP is going to utilize a totally different set of abilities than the ones we're all playing with now. It was something of a joke for Yoshida to offer players the Wolfs' Den in Beta, as what we were going to do with it then was nothing like what we're going to do with it in 2.1patch. We'll have different skills, designed and optimized for combat against players. We won't be interfering with our PvE skills. This is something that WoW never figured out; they couldn't divorce the two skill sets, thus allowing the one to influence the design of classes, but not the other.

If so, this ameliorates many, many issues.

[FuriousLobster]

This is something that DAoC did, and I actually liked it. We learned to recognize our foes by what they wore, their playstyle, and their group composition.

Don't forget that we had Races to go by, as well as realm rank.

"Get the Sylvan Thunderer!"
"Peel this Briton Lord off me!"

Etc.

[Khancer]

Damn that makes me want to play my Monk more.

[Alhanelem]

.....you do REALIZED that pvp and pve skill set WILL BE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT, RIGHT?

Supposedly, PvP is going to utilize a totally different set of abilities than the ones we're all playing with now. It was something of a joke for Yoshida to offer players the Wolfs' Den in Beta, as what we were going to do with it then was nothing like what we're going to do with it in 2.1patch. We'll have different skills, designed and optimized for combat against players. We won't be interfering with our PvE skills.

You will be using your regular PvE skills, but through play you will gain new skills from PvP that are exlcusive to PvP play- That is, we will most likely earn skills like crowd control breakers and such that would be overpowered for PvE but would help to balance the PvP. it would be waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much work to have totally unique skill sets for the same job for pvp/e. You could literally double the number of jobs in the game instead.

Most of this can be verified by going to the Wolves' Den Pier in the game right now and talking to the NPC at the desk. the game states that you will earn additional actions for PvP. It doesn't say you don't use your class/job's normal skills.

This is still different from WoW:
WoW: Use core skill set, messing around with the balance for both PvP and PvE and being unable to reasonably balance both modes effectively.
FFXIV: Use core skill set, but balance it with additional skills that are used only in PvP, rather than balancing it by messing with the core skills themselves, thus hampering PvE balance.

I know this is completely off topic but.... watching that PVP video... Sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep. Thats so boring. Is this what PVP is really like on FFXIV? Sleep constantly?

No, that's not really what it was like. The special PvP skills were not available in the beta test. The beta test PvP was a mere systems test to help SE determine certain things like attack ranges and such so that melee can still hit moving targets when latency is factored in, etc.

For PvE purposes, arena is just for Vanity Gear, because the PvP Gear looks like the best looking gear in the entire game, if the concept art is anything to go by. Can't wait.

It is not merely vanity gear, but due to various factors, such as special PvP stats (Morale, which will probably be necessary to be competitive), gear awarded for PvP will be better for PvP than it is for PvE, and gear awarded from PvE will be better for PvE than it is for PvP. I'm sure that, like most games, you'll be able to actually use this gear anywhere, but if you have a ilvl90 armor from PvP, you can use it in PvE just fine, but someone who has gear of the same ilvl from PvE will perform better than you (assuming equal skill) in PvE.

There is no reason why gear from one side of the game can't be used in the other. Both sides require time investment to obtain rewards, and generally, skill level in both cases only determines the time required. Example; even if you can't do Coil b/c you can't beat titan or whatever, you can still obtain ilvl90 gear given enough time by collecting myth stones. Same goes for PvP. You can still earn the gear even if you're not so good, it will just take longer. Because of this, I don't understand why some people are so vhemently against pvp having useful rewards. Implemented properly, PvP is no more abuseable than PvE is (and there ARE a lot of abuses in PvE right now). Doing well in PvP is no more easy or hard than doing well in PvE. It simply requires somewhat different player skills.

At any rate. We know there will be gear and that it will have stats. There's no escaping that. There is a Morale stat that doesn't exist on any PvE gear currently in existence. therefore, there will be PvP gear that has this stat on it. The thing is, it can't have no other stats, because otherwise, your PvE gear would be superior and there would be no reason to get the pvp gear.

I really can't stand the mentality "I don't wanna do PvP, therefore nobody who plays PvP can have stuff that's as good as what I have!". People should be able to obtain rewards that interest them regardless of the mode of play. This is where Ballista failed in FFXI. Because there was no incentive to participate, it was played a lot for a short period of time and then faded into obscurity because there was almost no reason to spend time on it versus spending the same amount of time doing BCNMs or NMs or whatever else that actually has a reward.

I'm glad you have such an inside track on exactly what's occurring. We'd be lost if you were speculating even a smidgen.

Wow, can the nasty attitude please. I explained that this is more than just an assumption. Talk to the damn NPCs. You earn PvP points, and spend them to "obtain PvP-exclusive actions and equipment."

You can't very well earn those PvP points to get the exclusive actions if you can't use your regular ones now, can you?

(wow, this ended up being a lot longer than I planned)

[TessaJalloh]

-snip-

I'm glad you have such an inside track on exactly what's occurring. We'd be lost if you were speculating even a smidgen.

Guild Wars long ago had separated skill specs for PVP and PVE. when in pve, the skills would act completely differently. This allowed them to balance PVP separately without impacting the play of PVE, and vice versa.

It's likely that given the description of how PVP will work that yoshi-p delivered, this same set up will be used here. With the same skills, but behaving differently for PVP. the extra pvp skills would i assume (pure speculation) be available to use as additional abilities, much like cross class skills from the armoury system.

[Alhanelem]

It's likely that given the description of how PVP will work that yoshi-p delivered, this same set up will be used here.

Read the info the NPCs in the game give on PvP. the meaning of it is pretty clear.

You're still going to have your bio, you're still going to have your heavy shots, you're still going to have your whatevers. *through play* you will earn points to unlock PvP gear and exclusive actions. If you can't believe what the game says inside of the game, what can you believe?

Guild Wars long ago had separated skill specs for PVP and PVE. when in pve, the skills would act completely differently.

This isn't the same as using completely differnet skill sets like you implied earlier. This is "Bio has effect A in PvE, but in PvP it has effect B instead."

its not altogether unlikely that there will be balance changes to existing skills that only take effect in PvP. FFXI had that even- a variety of abilities had different effects than normal- Especially skills that made no sense in a PvP environment, like Steal, and Provoke.)

[Laifon]

Don't get me wrong, I think the pvp is a great addition to the game..
It's just that it has a certain ''fun'' factor to it, since I doubt the HC pvpers will like the pvp in FF14

[Alhanelem]

Don't get me wrong, I think the pvp is a great addition to the game..
It's just that it has a certain ''fun'' factor to it, since I doubt the HC pvpers will like the pvp in FF14

some people are going to want more than just an arena, the good news is there will be more.

[Itseotle]

I remember in FFXI you could force people to lock on to you with voke. PVP in FFXIV is going to really need something like that to protect the squishies.

Not necessarily, I remember reading back in beta that PvP will have its own skill sets. This could mean some tweaks to existing skills, or entirely new ones, for PvP only.

[Alhanelem]

Not necessarily, I remember reading back in beta that PvP will have its own skill sets. This could mean some tweaks to existing skills, or entirely new ones, for PvP only.

As I mentioned in my post, the game tells you that you earn PvP points, and these points can be spent on PvP-exclusive equipment and actions. Thus, I would interpret this as you learn additional actions (made to balance PvP), but you still have your core skill set.