Wrath is the problem with warriors and here is why.

[Kitru]

Sorry for the huge amount of text but I had a lot to put out there.

You can edit a post to have more than 1k characters so you could've done your first post and then edited in your second two.

Thoughts and discussion are greatly appreciated.

The only real difference that you're talking about is providing the Inner Beast heal as a standard benefit and drastically reducing the effective CD (it's currently ~22.5 seconds; you're asking for it to be nearly halved). The problem would still be that the mitigation wouldn't scale with incoming damage.

You may want to level up to 50 before you start asking for massive revisions.

Wrath, as a mechanic, is fine as it is. It doesn't need to be completely removed. What needs to happen is for the +healing to be increased by roughly 10% (preferably as a passive benefit to Defiance) and the cost:benefit of the 3 Wrath consuming abilities reexamined. The reason that Steel Cyclone and Unchained are worthless is because the comparative cost to use them is too damned high and they provide a marginal benefit at best. Inner Beast provides and interesting choice between short term and long term survivability: it borrows from the long term to bolster the short term. They all represent a relative trade off. The problem is that the costs drastically outweigh the benefits. Wrath isn't a problem. The Wrath consuming abilities are (plus, replacing them with a series of short term CDs just gets boring, imo, especially since WARs already have one of the most complex rotations as is; you're effectively asking for 3 more buttons that need to be used regularly that are on CDs that don't even sync with the existing rotations).

[Shimiki]

I think adding a buff when you spend your wrath would be a great solution without changing the class too much. That would also encourage the warrior to spend the stacks instead of keeping them for the heal bonus.

That could be a new trait.

"After spending your wrath, you gain X% damage reduction for 15 seconds."

[TyrantPoke]

The problem is wrath is a clunky mechanic for anything more then 1 target. Yes you have steel cyclone, and it can be useful...but our best AoE for pure snap agro isn't even a warrior ability. We do more AoE damage, we do more single target damage. We are more versatile..and I've tanked everything except Coil at this point as a warrior and even spoke with a warrior that finished coil, you just can't tank *everything* like a paladin can.

With the way wrath functions we scale better with every new tier of gear, not much different then other games when warriors are considered.

With that said though, paladins utility far outscales warrior. Instant cast, instant re-use stun(interrupt) vs our 30 second one + they have an ability in place to keep their resources casting it infinite. Their cooldowns even have shorter timers across the board etc.

It's like some one said 'youll get more hp and do more damage, but paladins gonna be the tank for every situation'

Even then, the effective health difference is almost nothing.

[TheFanciestBard]

snip.

In essence you agreed with my standpoint of warriors not having realistically rewarding way to spend their wrath. Yes wrath as a mechanic can work but it's much easier to get rid of it. You even stated you would prefer the healing bonus be a passive to Defiance which is also another key point to my argument. Warrior abilities aren't rewarding enough to warrant their costs and simply giving us the best of both world by rolling a heal bonus into defiance and limit abilities on CDs alone does wonders. At the moment wars are just too focused on dps abilities with low to moderate self healing ability to be a real tank. Something needs a change, and you don't need to be an end game raider to see that if you know anything about tanking. Besides why should we be all about trade offs when paladins just do their thing and have a ton of 'oh shit' buttons, because not being able to keep up sword oath is not enough of a trade off to justify their abilities.

[Kitru]

Besides why should we be all about trade offs when paladins just do their thing and have a ton of 'oh shit' buttons, because not being able to keep up sword oath is not enough of a trade off to justify their abilities.

Because that's what makes WAR interesting and fun to play. If you don't have to think about any tradeoffs, then it just becomes spamming the same rotation over and over again rather than having to gauge the situation. That's what makes me *enjoy* WAR: it's got a degree of complexity to it that PLD just doesn't have. Making the entire bonus passive (I'm not saying that; I want there to be a 10% +heal passive *added* to Defiance in addition to what Wrath already provides) and turning all of the Wrath consumers into baseline CDs removes all of the complexity.

Basically, you're asking for the stuff that makes WAR fun and interesting to be removed so that it plays almost exactly like PLD (i.e. static rotation). I don't want that. I want the trade offs to remain but to have mean contribution of Defiance/Wrath where it *should* be (25% +healing total) and the cost/benefit of Unchained and Steel Cyclone modified so that they're actually worth using. That's completely different than just wanting it to all be passive and CD.