Red Mage as possible new tank class

[Gandora]

Because after becoming the Dark Knight job, they won't be stacking VIT anymore? If you're a DPS, you'll respec. This concern is irrelevant.

It is, I'm a main WAR, if DRK is a DD that come from MRD main, i'll have to get 50k GC credit everytime I want to change job, because i'll be loled at as WAR with 30 STR, or loled at as DRK with full VIT..

SCH & SMN are facing this problem currently if you did not know.

I really wonder if the majority of the posters think before posting on this forum.

I personally feel that what I want could easily be covered by a Runic Knight (based off Celes from FF6)/ Mystic Knight (FF5) class and this would most likely be the best answer to a magic tank.

also this ^

[Giantbane]

It is, I'm a main WAR, if DRK is a DD that come from MRD main, i'll have to get 50k GC credit everytime I want to change job, because i'll be loled at as WAR with 30 STR, or loled at as DRK with full VIT..

SCH & SMN are facing this problem currently if you did not know.

I really wonder if the majority of the posters think before posting on this forum.



also this ^

It may not be *that* bad for DRK, depending on how it's implemented. Darkness/Souleater often increases the damage done/augmented when you have higher hp, so it's possible high hp could be a benefit for a DRK by increasing their max Darkness/Souleater damage.

Aside from that possibility, they probably need to change it so that the jobs have their own stat allocation separate from the base class.

If they don't there's other ways to look at it. The game sort of encourages you currently to focus on a main job. With lockouts on coil and the weekly myth cap, you can't really gear 2 classes with the best of the best stuff at the same time. You focus on one, getting your +1, myth and allagan gear for that, and gear up your alts in gear from the next tier down. Your alts won't be *as* strong, but they'll be pretty good. It goes a little further if your alt uses the same base class, you don't get optimal stat allocation for your alt job either. But it will still probably do a pretty good job in most scenarios outside of the top tier raids as long as you gear it up with the best available outside of the gear that's limited by caps and lockouts.

Also, even then, you can sort of get around it. Don't main/alt two jobs in the same class. If you want a tank and dps, and you *must* have a DRK (assuming DRK is based of MRD), then make your tank a PLD. May not be your first choice, but then you get to allocate the stats the way you want to.

Anyhow, you may not *like* that classes can branch into 2 jobs that focus on 2 different things, but it's a system that they've pretty much assured us they're going to expand. It's much less work for them to add new Jobs based on existing classes so they figure they get more bang for their buck (more jobs, less work). So you can argue against it all you like, I don't think it's going anywhere any time soon. Best to make suggestions that work within that framework. You'll probably get further and be less frustrated with it.

[Giantbane]

I just really think its a bad idea because of the Storm Path, Storm eyes, BB combo and MRD class traits. Remember that the game mechanics are tied to the weapons a class is using.

This being said that is why a PLD has acces to Rage of Halone, making RDM or BLU of a GLA30 would give them RoA combo and the class main traits.

If a job such as DRK should be a DD, they would need a new main class to give them a full support in their role, a class that will give priority to STR support traits and things that will enhance the final job, I don't see how MRD could do that at this time let alone GLA.

They would need to make changes in the class mechanics for the job to not end up like SCH & SMN.

The only thing that's goofy is the VIT class traits, ideally those would work differently if you were a DRK. If not, they would (should) balance the damage done around not having access to the STR traits available to other melee dps jobs.

And what's wrong with MRD traits? I believe they stated that if they added dps classes based on tank classes that all the +enmity abilities like the BB combo or overpower would lose their +enmity effect when used by that class. Without the +enmity effect, the BB combo does decent damage on its own, and they have access to damage boosting abilities like maim & storm's eye which are great for a new DPS class. And more specific to DRK, storm's path and blood bath can provide some healing to counteract health lost by darkness/souleater, providing some synergy with those abilities and the iconic damage boosting ability of the FF DRK.

Same with GLD as a base for DRK,RDM or BLU. They have the base damage combo which works ok, and then they have riot blade to restore any MP so they can use their limited MP pool to cast any spells added by these DPS classes.

Sure it would be *nice* if every new job came with a new base class that had its own unique ability set, but they've already stated that they're more focused on adding jobs to existing classes first, only adding new classes when they feel they absolutely need to.

[Gandora]

Darkness/Souleater often increases the damage done/augmented when you have higher hp, so it's possible high hp could be a benefit for a DRK by increasing their max Darkness/Souleater damage.

Other then FFXI, do you have any back up on that argument? Also talking about XI, did you use Souleater often outside of Zerk PT?

Aside from that possibility, they probably need to change it so that the jobs have their own stat allocation separate from the base class.

No kidding?

If they don't there's other ways to look at it. The game sort of encourages you currently to focus on a main job.

Hence why I’m talking about stats allocation... using myself as an example. They should think about it when implanting a new job, especially when that new job could be a potential DD coming from a tank class.

Also, even then, you can sort of get around it. Don't main/alt two jobs in the same class. If you want a tank and dps, and you *must* have a DRK (assuming DRK is based of MRD), then make your tank a PLD. May not be your first choice, but then you get to allocate the stats the way you want to.

This reasoning fail, If I listen to you I shouldn’t level up both SCH & SMN, because if I level up SCH to play as healer I should look for another DD with a separated class, what if I want both 50 & use them as efficiently as I can (leaving out the main job thing?)

You'll probably get further and be less frustrated with it.

No one’s frustrated, I’m here like everyone else to state ideas trying to take everything into consideration, unlike ppl who goes “hohoho RDM/DRK should be a tank because in older FFs....” or “Ohohoh DRK should be a tank because of Souleater using HP to deal damage and the fact they wear heavy armors..”

And what's wrong with MRD traits? I believe they stated that if they added dps classes based on tank classes that all the +enmity abilities like the BB combo or overpower would lose their +enmity effect when used by that class.

Nothing wrong on its own, but for the base of a DD job I don’t see the benefit of enhance VIT 1 2 & 3. Making a new class primarily giving boost to the future job would be more logical and appreciable.
Lets say DRK, something like “enhanced Drain potency” “Enhanced STR” & things such as what you could get from the merit category in XI.

Same with GLD as a base for DRK,RDM or BLU. They have the base damage combo which works ok, and then they have riot blade to restore any MP so they can use their limited MP pool to cast any spells added by these DPS classes.

While this seems logic, you forget something important here. Everything you mention would give little to no viable support to RDM or BLU. It would leave space only for abilities acquired by the job itself to determine it & not the class.
When you look at BLM, they use Blizzard & Fire learned from CNJ and learn Flare on top as a job ability, however they are still supported by what they learned from 1 to 30+ as a CONJ.
When you apply this reasoning to what ppl are saying in this thread, DRK, RDM, or BLU would use tanks base class abilities and then have 5 slot to learn 5 job abilities. To me it sound ludicrous.
I don’t disagree that Riot Blade is a very good example to take into consideration for BLU &/or RDM, but mage classes/jobs already implanted in the game at this time already have way to recover MPs, as RDM is a mage, wouldn’t it be more logical for the job to benefit of these abilities instead?

[Gardes]

xxx cooldown buff skill
Converts xx% of the Dark Knight's vitality for xx% dmg boost for xx seconds

Essentially cuts down the dark knight's maximum hp regardless of current standing hp for xx seconds for damage boost similar to BfB and when the buff dissipates, the maximum HP will return but his current HP will not change.

Is it solved yet? Should be fun to use and pair with BfB during tumults.

[Exstal]

It is, I'm a main WAR, if DRK is a DD that come from MRD main, i'll have to get 50k GC credit everytime I want to change job, because i'll be loled at as WAR with 30 STR, or loled at as DRK with full VIT..

SCH & SMN are facing this problem currently if you did not know.

I really wonder if the majority of the posters think before posting on this forum.

It seems you don't even play this game. It only takes 10k GC tokens to respec and you EASILY get that before 50.

Not sure why you need those 30 extra stat point for trivial content (which is what alts are meant for). You're not going to be using your off class in Coil, and you certainly do NOT need it for anything less than Coil. So as I said, it's irrelevant.

[Gandora]

It seems you don't even play this game. It only takes 10k GC tokens to respec and you EASILY get that before 50.

Not sure why you need those 30 extra stat point for trivial content (which is what alts are meant for). You're not going to be using your off class in Coil, and you certainly do NOT need it for anything less than Coil. So as I said, it's irrelevant.

Well flash news! not everyone want to play an alt character, also by saying 50k I am being large (5x10k) you know.. I'm talking on the long run, as it would even require more then 50k in the end.
Also, it seems like you don't play the game, as 30 extra VIT is relevant for a WAR or PLD main. In WP it does allow you to take everyone grudge more easily, or assure you to survive Titan's Mountain buster.

So once again, yeah its relevant.

One last thing, when these class/jobs will come (if they come) they will be available as main class/jobs for new characters since they will be released after the classes/jobs we currently have.. Which mean, from your statement that if RDM was coming out with buffs (FFXI style) it wouldn't be used in Coil because they wouldn't be any older character main class? I do love your logic, especialy when most FC ask you to have multiple job @ 50 to complete their rosters.

[Exstal]

Well flash news! not everyone want to play an alt character, also by saying 50k I am being large (5x10k) you know.. I'm talking on the long run, as it would even require more then 50k in the end.
Also, it seems like you don't play the game, as 30 extra VIT is relevant for a WAR or PLD main. In WP it does allow you to take everyone grudge more easily, or assure you to survive Titan's Mountain buster.

So once again, yeah its relevant.

Not everyone has an alt character? Then there is no point in using seals because you only play 1 job of your base class. If you're playing SMN, there is no reason to spend seals because you'll never play your SCH. For example. If I am a SMN main. I gear my SMN for Coil, because that's what I use it for. Why do I need 30 MND for Titan on my SCH when I would more than likely outgear it? Or WP/AK when I outgear it?

Except in my case, I am BLM main and SCH alt. I used my SMN without stat change because 30 INT on Titan or lower doesn't mean it's going to hurt enough.

One last thing, when these class/jobs will come (if they come) they will be available as main class/jobs for new characters since they will be released after the classes/jobs we currently have.. Which mean, from your statement that if RDM was coming out with buffs (FFXI style) it wouldn't be used in Coil because they wouldn't be any older character main class? I do love your logic, especialy when most FC ask you to have multiple job @ 50 to complete their rosters.

By my logic, if you're going to switch the new class to your main, you would change stats once and never look back. Not that your character would be geared for Coil anyway. FCs don't ask multiple jobs to complete their rosters. They ask for 1 job and if you have it, then you better be geared enough to use it. People don't /shout "LF SMN with SCH and tank offclass at 50 to do Coil".

[Gandora]

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Not sure if trolling or.. for most of the things you just said.

[Exstal]

Not sure if trolling or.. for most of the things you just said.

Ok let me break down for you;

- No alts? No need to respec
- No one askes people to have multiple 50s
- If DRK is STR, DEX or even INT, and your main is PLD - you won't use DRK in Coil without respecing, and you won't need to respec for content below coil because it's easy