Red Mage as possible new tank class

[Gardes]

Yoship seems to really care about and abide by the 'class/role equality with play style to differentiate' thing so I don't think any mage tank advantage or disadvantage in capability is gonna fly, even if we have the pld vs war or any other dps vs dps issue atm. He already streamlined damage types as evidence. Any existing damage 'types' can only boost itself but never have a base advantage from what I can tell. Everything starts from 0 and a player can either buff himself or debuff an enemy but never start at +1 or above, like monks having a starting advantage over other class when fighting bone undeads or dragoons having advantage over flying enemies (correct me if this kind of thing exists in ARR). I think this also already applies in reverse to some degree; we can barely modify our elemental resistances (I've never seen someone say that it's worth it to use those potions) and there's only apocatastasis and traited protect; no monsters have an advantage over players with different jobs or armor types. They're almost all just labels at this point.

So I dont think yoship will ever say "Lets make a tank that is weaker at tanking physical damage compared to other tanks and have him be really good at taking magical damage so some dungeons/fights people would want pld/war, some dungeons/fights people would want this magic tank". Especially when some attacks can be vague and needs testing and checking to find out if it's magical or physical (too much stress, you know?). I can already see him not liking that already, judging from his past answers for questions about elemental wheel being removed. I feel that, at best, if we're going to get any caster tank, is yoship aiming it to have the same tanking ability as the pld and war and have it revolve around magic barriers that works for any type of damage for mitigation. Something like stoneskin and sch shields, except better and for the tank's personal use and maybe a different way of generating enmity (ooh maybe party wide barrier cast that transfers/steals enmity back to the caster tank if a monster hits a party member).

[Gandora]

I just really think its a bad idea because of the Storm Path, Storm eyes, BB combo and MRD class traits. Remember that the game mechanics are tied to the weapons a class is using.

This being said that is why a PLD has acces to Rage of Halone, making RDM or BLU of a GLA30 would give them RoA combo and the class main traits.

If a job such as DRK should be a DD, they would need a new main class to give them a full support in their role, a class that will give priority to STR support traits and things that will enhance the final job, I don't see how MRD could do that at this time let alone GLA.

They would need to make changes in the class mechanics for the job to not end up like SCH & SMN.

[Gardes]

They would need to make changes in the class mechanics for the job to not end up like SCH & SMN.

The game has already done this. WAR modified some skills by adding extra effects to MRD skills. A MRD wouldnt have those wrath effects that are integral to WAR play and the skills to use those wrath points, nor would a second job sprouting from MRD have it.

SCH and SMN also modified base skills and it's not even traited or stanced like WAR did it, iirc. SMN changes carbuncles to egi, SCH changes to fairies. Not only that changed/added the pet skills, it directly changed the ACN's summon skill. They also have different skills using the ACN mechanics of aetherflow in opposing ways.

[Gandora]

The game has already done this. WAR modified some skills by adding extra effects to MRD skills. A MRD wouldnt have those wrath effects that are integral to WAR play and the skills to use those wrath points, nor would a second job sprouting from MRD have it.

SCH and SMN also modified base skills and it's not even traited or stanced like WAR did it, iirc. SMN changes carbuncles to egi, SCH changes to fairies. Not only that changed/added the pet skills, it directly changed the ACN's summon skill. They also have different skills using the ACN mechanics of aetherflow in opposing ways.

What about the stats attribution? Main SMN have little cure because of the INT priority & vice-versa. What good would a full DRK VIT give in case of DPS role? lol

[Gardes]

Main SMN

Exactly.

Plus, they already gated myth gear anyway.

[Exstal]

What about the stats attribution? Main SMN have little cure because of the INT priority & vice-versa. What good would a full DRK VIT give in case of DPS role? lol

Because after becoming the Dark Knight job, they won't be stacking VIT anymore? If you're a DPS, you'll respec. This concern is irrelevant.

[Gandora]

Because after becoming the Dark Knight job, they won't be stacking VIT anymore? If you're a DPS, you'll respec. This concern is irrelevant.

It is, I'm a main WAR, if DRK is a DD that come from MRD main, i'll have to get 50k GC credit everytime I want to change job, because i'll be loled at as WAR with 30 STR, or loled at as DRK with full VIT..

SCH & SMN are facing this problem currently if you did not know.

I really wonder if the majority of the posters think before posting on this forum.

I personally feel that what I want could easily be covered by a Runic Knight (based off Celes from FF6)/ Mystic Knight (FF5) class and this would most likely be the best answer to a magic tank.

also this ^

[Giantbane]

It is, I'm a main WAR, if DRK is a DD that come from MRD main, i'll have to get 50k GC credit everytime I want to change job, because i'll be loled at as WAR with 30 STR, or loled at as DRK with full VIT..

SCH & SMN are facing this problem currently if you did not know.

I really wonder if the majority of the posters think before posting on this forum.



also this ^

It may not be *that* bad for DRK, depending on how it's implemented. Darkness/Souleater often increases the damage done/augmented when you have higher hp, so it's possible high hp could be a benefit for a DRK by increasing their max Darkness/Souleater damage.

Aside from that possibility, they probably need to change it so that the jobs have their own stat allocation separate from the base class.

If they don't there's other ways to look at it. The game sort of encourages you currently to focus on a main job. With lockouts on coil and the weekly myth cap, you can't really gear 2 classes with the best of the best stuff at the same time. You focus on one, getting your +1, myth and allagan gear for that, and gear up your alts in gear from the next tier down. Your alts won't be *as* strong, but they'll be pretty good. It goes a little further if your alt uses the same base class, you don't get optimal stat allocation for your alt job either. But it will still probably do a pretty good job in most scenarios outside of the top tier raids as long as you gear it up with the best available outside of the gear that's limited by caps and lockouts.

Also, even then, you can sort of get around it. Don't main/alt two jobs in the same class. If you want a tank and dps, and you *must* have a DRK (assuming DRK is based of MRD), then make your tank a PLD. May not be your first choice, but then you get to allocate the stats the way you want to.

Anyhow, you may not *like* that classes can branch into 2 jobs that focus on 2 different things, but it's a system that they've pretty much assured us they're going to expand. It's much less work for them to add new Jobs based on existing classes so they figure they get more bang for their buck (more jobs, less work). So you can argue against it all you like, I don't think it's going anywhere any time soon. Best to make suggestions that work within that framework. You'll probably get further and be less frustrated with it.

[Exstal]

It is, I'm a main WAR, if DRK is a DD that come from MRD main, i'll have to get 50k GC credit everytime I want to change job, because i'll be loled at as WAR with 30 STR, or loled at as DRK with full VIT..

SCH & SMN are facing this problem currently if you did not know.

I really wonder if the majority of the posters think before posting on this forum.

It seems you don't even play this game. It only takes 10k GC tokens to respec and you EASILY get that before 50.

Not sure why you need those 30 extra stat point for trivial content (which is what alts are meant for). You're not going to be using your off class in Coil, and you certainly do NOT need it for anything less than Coil. So as I said, it's irrelevant.

[Giantbane]

I just really think its a bad idea because of the Storm Path, Storm eyes, BB combo and MRD class traits. Remember that the game mechanics are tied to the weapons a class is using.

This being said that is why a PLD has acces to Rage of Halone, making RDM or BLU of a GLA30 would give them RoA combo and the class main traits.

If a job such as DRK should be a DD, they would need a new main class to give them a full support in their role, a class that will give priority to STR support traits and things that will enhance the final job, I don't see how MRD could do that at this time let alone GLA.

They would need to make changes in the class mechanics for the job to not end up like SCH & SMN.

The only thing that's goofy is the VIT class traits, ideally those would work differently if you were a DRK. If not, they would (should) balance the damage done around not having access to the STR traits available to other melee dps jobs.

And what's wrong with MRD traits? I believe they stated that if they added dps classes based on tank classes that all the +enmity abilities like the BB combo or overpower would lose their +enmity effect when used by that class. Without the +enmity effect, the BB combo does decent damage on its own, and they have access to damage boosting abilities like maim & storm's eye which are great for a new DPS class. And more specific to DRK, storm's path and blood bath can provide some healing to counteract health lost by darkness/souleater, providing some synergy with those abilities and the iconic damage boosting ability of the FF DRK.

Same with GLD as a base for DRK,RDM or BLU. They have the base damage combo which works ok, and then they have riot blade to restore any MP so they can use their limited MP pool to cast any spells added by these DPS classes.

Sure it would be *nice* if every new job came with a new base class that had its own unique ability set, but they've already stated that they're more focused on adding jobs to existing classes first, only adding new classes when they feel they absolutely need to.