Red Mage as possible new tank class

[MartaDemireux]

For everyone saying to give RDM Magic Sword, that is a Mystic Knight's ability traditionally. I think that's the job name you're really wanting.

Edit: Also Kitru, instead of expending a trait to do that, they could just program the DEX modifying attack into the Rapier weapon type similar to how they did it with BRD and then change the tooltip to "DEX influences the attack of Rapiers and Bows." They could then expand that to include daggers for rogue/thief as well.

[Kitru]

For everyone saying to give RDM Magic Sword, that is a Mystic Knight's ability traditionally. I think that's the job name you're really wanting.

Eh, some other name could just as easily be applied to it. "Ensorcell Weapon" would be equally appropriate. All that matter is the mechanic behind it.

I could see Mystic Knight branching off of this, with the Job stance applying high enmity modifiers to some attacks (likely x5 for Glorioso and x3 for Terzo) and giving a percentage increase to Def and mDef (to make up for wearing weaker armor; conversely, the job *could* allow them to use DRG/LNC armor intead of generic DoW armor, which would give them better armor that's still technically worse than the beefy tank armor). Add a few tank CDs via the job and you could have a pretty interesting tank with Weaving Strike (make it apply only to yourself but have a higher number or add flat DR/Parry). The only problem I could see would be gearing: as I've said before, the only gear in game with tank stats on it is heavy armor. Unless there were some mechanic to convert DPS stats into tank stats (or provide a tank benefit when scoring a critical hit to turn crit into a tank stat), gearing would be problematic since the only source for parry would be materia.

[MartaDemireux]

snip for text limit

Yeah, that's why in my vision for FNC> RDM/MST I gave MST the possibility of some chain and gave RDM an ability that reduced STR and DEX by 15% while buffing MND and INT 20%. That way MST can still survive hits and RDM's magic attacks will be worth using. For your vision I could see dropping one of the abilities for a similar conversion of stats.

Edit: Actually honestly your RDM tank really does sound more like a MST to me overall. And with your various attacks and traits, have you considered theorycrafting your FNC to branch into DNC and MST? It'd be quite interesting to see what you could do with that.

[Kitru]

Yeah, that's why in my vision for FNC> RDM/MST I gave MST the possibility of some chain and gave RDM an ability that reduced STR and DEX by 15% while buffing MND and INT 20%.

That really wouldn't work out well. Percentage gains to stats don't work because gear doesn't buff all stats. I don't have a DPS at 50 to compare, but, based off of my WAR, MND and INT are 110 and 78, respectively; STR and VIT are both in excess of 300. Assuming a DEX equal to my VIT, this idea would end up costing ~45 DEX for only ~22 INT (assuming we're talking DPS), which is a pretty severe drop in effectiveness. Hybrid stat allocations just don't work well, which is why it's better to have a single stat that does multiple things rather than multiple stats for multiple things.

Edit: Actually honestly your RDM tank really does sound more like a MST to me overall. And with your various attacks and traits, have you considered theorycrafting your FNC to branch into DNC and MST? It'd be quite interesting to see what you could do with that.

Assuming you mean the part where I call it a Mystic Knight rather than the whole write up for RDM I did before that, I agree. I think I'll edit in the MST (MYS?) to the post I just did.

As to DNC (assuming you mean Dancer), I would actually see Dancer as a healer job based off of Thief, rather than Fencer. I envision a dancer wielding dagger(s) because they're smaller rather than a rapier that might get in the way of complex dance moves (lest you stab yourself).

[MartaDemireux]

Percentage gains to stats

Well therein lies the beauty of jobs gaining entirely different stat bonuses to their classes. SMN for instance gets a lot more INT than ACN and SCH gets a lot more MND. In my vision I see RDM getting a larger pool of INT/MND/PIE than the base class of FNC and MST getting a larger pool of DEX/STR/VIT. With RDM generally being the "jack of all trades" I envision them getting relatively equal stats all around.

Assuming you mean the part

I was referring to the abilities in the spoilers. Mystic Knight was all about added magic attacks to physical attacks (as well as added enfeebles) so it just screamed it to me.

[Techro]

For everyone saying to give RDM Magic Sword, that is a Mystic Knight's ability traditionally. I think that's the job name you're really wanting.

Edit: Also Kitru, instead of expending a trait to do that, they could just program the DEX modifying attack into the Rapier weapon type similar to how they did it with BRD and then change the tooltip to "DEX influences the attack of Rapiers and Bows." They could then expand that to include daggers for rogue/thief as well.

^This guy. he knows...he knows too much. lol. I completely agree with this dude!

[Kraun]

I prefer if they ever add RDM (which im gonna jump in straight, loved playing one in FFXI), i hope they keep it as jack of all trades, master of none, just the way i like my classes, currently have to settle for WHM, because no other class interests me.

[Warthain]

this screams Op everywhere i look at... lol, never going to happen, and so much stacking buffs for crit chance, in a tank? lol.... skills in dps league and above, 300 power, 600 potency, stuns, multiple party buffs, all Lb at your disposal? why not give him all cleric heals and be done with it, one class to rule them all lol

[Kitru]

this screams Op everywhere i look at

Maybe that's because you're completely and utterly clueless.

so much stacking buffs for crit chance, in a tank?

You realize that WAR has a constant 10% crit buff and access to a 15% increased crit chance buff with 25% uptime, right? This means that WAR gets, on average, a 13.75% increase to its crit rate. This class only gets marginally more (10% from LOS and 1 guaranteed crit every 30 seconds, which makes it like Life Surge, except it's unreliable so you're just as likely to get it on your big attack as a weaker one, so you get about half of the practical benefit).

The only crit effects that I gave this class were Feint (one crit every 30 seconds) and Luck Over Skill, which is only marginally more effective than Internal Release (30% +crit with 33% uptime compared to 30% +crit with 25% uptime). The entire point is that it's a crit focused DPS as the base class and for a portion of the tank's mitigation to be drawn from scoring critical hits since it's grown out of a crit focused DPS class.

skills in dps league and above

It's based off of a DPS class so that's kind of where they're coming from in the first place. On top of that, those numbers weren't calculated. They were just chosen in a kind of "eh, seems about right" kind of way. Complaining about the numbers being too high without having even done any math to put them into perspective (you'll notice that the *only* damage buffs I included were those crit buffs) is simply idiotic.

, 300 power, 600 potency, stuns, multiple party buffs, all Lb at your disposal?

Do you not realize that you're talking about 2 different jobs there? Red Mage is DPS with support capability and Mystic Knight is tank. The support capability of the Red Mage is derived from those buffs and the ability to bring whatever LB is needed. It's akin to the BRD resource benefits which are a *massive* boon to a group. Keep in mind, they have to have the the relevant aura up in order to access the other LBs and those have only 1/6 uptimes so you have to choose between retaining the ability to choose your LB on the fly or providing those buffs to your group.

The stuns are just part of tanking and DPSing by default (PLD has no CD on theirs; how are you even bringing that stun capability up now?) and the 600 potency attack is intentionally huge: it turns off your tank stance which has a 20 sec CD. Rather than getting a DPS stance or massive native +damage buffs, the Mystic Knight get a massive attack that it can throw down at the cost of its tanking stance (which also happens to afford it most of the improved performance on its combo attacks). Honestly, if you wanted to look at *any* of the abilities as broken, it should likely be Riposte, which is a 200 potency off-GCD attack that would proc pretty often given the parry buffs I gave Mystic Knight.

[Gandora]

Maybe that's because you're completely and utterly clueless.

This one made my day, especialy because it came from you.

Do you think unpacking wall of bs and failogic on a forum is making you look smart? I have never seen so much idotie in my life, and with the wall of text you write there is enough to print a 2013 Quid of stupidity..