random Duty Finder groups - Square Enix attitude solution INC

[Zfz]

If you're in a group with 8 friendly strangers, each person can earn 7 votes.

You get exactly 1 vote (to cast on others). Votes can only be cast on Random Duty players.

It's very unlikely all 8 of you are eligible to receive votes, because random duty puts you into content that is already short of people of your particular role. So at most 7 randoms and there will only be 1 vote available. Or 1 random, and 7 votes available. In the latter case, all 7 votes will either end up on that one person, or some of it won't be cast.

Of course, what is to stop people from not up voting you so you have to queue more allowing them to get faster queues, or just to troll you in a completely different way.

Nothing. We can't force people to vote either, because that would counter the whole point of the MVP system.

rewarding Tanks/Healers when they are in high demand

They're doing that as well. There will be indications on the Duty Finder that says "we're short of tanks now, queue for some bonus" kind of thing. This info is also in the very same interview with Yoshi-P.

[Ruminate]

You get exactly 1 vote (to cast on others). Votes can only be cast on Random Duty players.

It's very unlikely all 8 of you are eligible to receive votes, because random duty puts you into content that is already short of people of your particular role. So at most 7 randoms and there will only be 1 vote available. Or 1 random, and 7 votes available. In the latter case, all 7 votes will either end up on that one person, or some of it won't be cast.

How do you know you get exactly one vote? The system hasn't been out yet, and translations are never ever 100% accurate.

[Jynxii]

They're doing that as well. There will be indications on the Duty Finder that says "we're short of tanks now, queue for some bonus" kind of thing. This info is also in the very same interview with Yoshi-P.

Yes I read this, although the information is quite limited. I did skim through it, but it talks about an 'experience bonus', which seems redundant if you are queuing with a level 50 class to 'help out'. I love that the game has the ability to scale players down so you can play with friends/help out other players, but if people use this system, whether they are 49 or 50, and the rewards also 'scale down', there is a problem.

Let say hypothetically the reward is 100 per level (simple math). At level 50 you'd get a 5,000 gil reward for using your time to help out strangers. Ultimately, this is a time investment, nothing more. Now if it scaled down based on content, and you got Dzemael Darkhold (scale to 46), you'd get 4,600, which isn't so bad right? What about if you got Satasha (scale to 17)? Now your time is only worth 1,700 gil. Adversely, if you were level 20 (hypothetical max of 2,000) and got scaled down to 17 the 'gil loss' would be less significant, however you'd also be gaining experience and (potentially) gear.

This is why I believe the rewards should be based on the actual level of the class, not the dungeon/scaled down level. People are using their time to help others out; why should RNG determine how much that time is worth?

[Bane766]

I think the idea sounds promising. I hope they have the vote kick option in there as well. Even with this, it won't stop the worst trolls.

I also think it needs to be at the end of the dungeon. Otherwise it can be abused too much.

[Naberrie]

It would need to be at the end of a dungeon, after you've beaten the boss. A screen pops up for each player asking you to vote up your fellow players if you wish. Others can't see your votes. That way you'd need to have good behavior and play throughout. And making votes hidden avoids the issue of anger at the end of the DF group if you find you did not get rated up.

At the end of the week you could go to a specific location, maybe your GC, and be informed how many MVP points you gained that week. And make it so that you need an incredible amount of points to get good items, if they do give items as rewards. That would encourage people to redo dungeons to get items, plus encourage good behavior.

I'm willing to give it a chance. It has potential if implemented properly.

[Jynxii]

Snip.

This would probably be the best way to do it. As you mentioned, has people maintain good behaviour and keeps them jumping back into the DF pool.

So this whole topic doesn't apply to you. If you want the rewards you will have to run the random DF. If you don't then you won't. It's that simple.

You are missing his point. Jerks or not in Duty Finder, a population of players are now being told that there are rewards that they can not obtain unless they 'selfishly' break bonds with their friend/FC/LS groups. The system does have potential to coax some players into running randomly, but if it is going to, even in the smallest degree, coax players to ditch their FC/LS friends to earn a currency, you are remedying the random DF jerks (and queues times perhaps), but are now creating LS/FC jerks. It isn't even that the players are like that themselves, or want to be like that, but are being forced to do so in order to obtain the rewards. If there was an alternative, such as an equal currency that you could earn from running with full/partial groups, it wouldn't be an issue.

[KaiKatzchen]

You are missing his point. Jerks or not in Duty Finder, a population of players are now being told that there are rewards that they can not obtain unless they 'selfishly' break bonds with their friend/FC/LS groups. The system does have potential to coax some players into running randomly, but if it is going to, even in the smallest degree, coax players to ditch their FC/LS friends to earn a currency, you are remedying the random DF jerks (and queues times perhaps), but are now creating LS/FC jerks. It isn't even that the players are like that themselves, or want to be like that, but are being forced to do so in order to obtain the rewards. If there was an alternative, such as an equal currency that you could earn from running with full/partial groups, it wouldn't be an issue.

I'm glad someone understood my point, it can cause issues from those who feel their loyalty to friends or a group is being looked down on by SE. What kind of message is that sending? "We will give you X items to be good and stop being rude players", but people who are good and helpful are overlooked for being that way?

Thank you for understanding. /bow

[Jynxii]

I'm glad someone understood my point, it can cause issues from those who feel their loyalty to friends or a group is being looked down on by SE.

Not to mention the psychological strain on the individual player (cognitive dissonance), or the social strain on such friend groups and networks.

The system will probably end up going through, but I hope they have some system in place that also rewards players that support their LS/FC/Friends. I wonder if a system was put in place that rewarded running as an FC/LS, would people that didn't run in such a manner, and did random groups instead, oppose to a separate system like this? Now they're 'forced' to support their FC/LS otherwise they miss out on minions/mounts etc.

Might actually be worth putting together a post/letter for Yoshi and the team about the psychological effects of cognitive dissonance, forcing friend groups apart, and all that other jazz.

[KaiKatzchen]

Not to mention the psychological strain on the individual player (cognitive dissonance), or the social strain on such friend groups and networks.

The system will probably end up going through, but I hope they have some system in place that also rewards players that support their LS/FC/Friends. I wonder if a system was put in place that rewarded running as an FC/LS, would people that didn't run in such a manner, and did random groups instead, oppose to a separate system like this? Now they're 'forced' to support their FC/LS otherwise they miss out on minions/mounts etc.

Might actually be worth putting together a post/letter for Yoshi and the team about the psychological effects of cognitive dissonance, forcing friend groups apart, and all that other jazz.

I agree with you 100% on all aspects.

There are some who only play this game because of a group of friends, and maybe they talked that person into playing because they knew they could do everything together. They may not feel comfortable doing it with strangers, but now they are felt out of something (getting points for items etc) because doing it with their friends isn't good enough?



There should be some kind of recognition for being a friendly kind player that helps it's own, which is why we make up LS's and FC's. If they do impliment this and people enter a DF with people all from the same server, same LS or same FC there should be some kind of point or randomized voting equivalent given to them for supporting their own server.

In all honestly I have been against DF since it's inception, and I believe that it support's an anti-community outlook. No longer do people have to be polite, help people on their server and keep up a good reputation among them. No, now you can just queue and unlucky people have to deal with their attitudes and elitist thinking and players and proceed though the game. There is no responsibly held for people and their actions in this game, and because the DF is cross server and random it's hard to avoid those who do have bad reputations.

As for your last comment, that might be a good idea. Too bad we aren't on the same servers, it would be a pleasure to meet you in game.

[Ryios]

I think tokens should be able to be traded for myth and philo (at w/e lowly conversion rate is feasible). I also think we should be able to use them to earn a minion that can repair our gear. So we are in a dungeon and need to repair and we have the minion so we summon it and (the owner) can right click it to repair with gil at a 50% discount or use Vote Up Tokens for a free repair.

I also think some sort of VoteUp Ranking system should be calculated over time and Your VoteUp rank should affect how you que

-Platinum
-Gold
-Silver
-Bronze
-None

None would have a normal que priority (not yet rated), Bronze +10% priority, Silver + 25% priority, Gold 50% priority, Platinum +100% Priority.

Now (ILevel restrictions are coming out) so what the Duty Finder sort logic should do when finding players is:

First, Sort out all the people below the required ILevel for the dungeon, Then sort all the people by their VoteUp Ranking. Attempt to match players in Platinum with other players in platinum, gold with gold, etc etc etc. Only put a gold with a platinum when no platinum of the required role is available.

Now add bonuses to the dungeon based on whether it's being run by Platinum, Gold, Silver, Bronze, or None

-None : Dungeon is normal no added stuff
-Bronze: Dungeon has an extra wing and coffer
-Silver: Dungeon has an extra wind and coffer as well as an extra piece of loot from the last boss
-Gold: Dungeon has 2 extra wings with coffer's and an extra piece of loot on last boss
-Platinum: Dungeon has 2 extra wings with coffer's and an extra piece of loot on last boss. Also their is an NPC Repair vendor at the start of the dungeon offering repairs at 50% off or purchasable with vote up tokens.

A dungeon should be of the appropriate rank with fixed groups as long as people in the fixed group have been voted up by non fixed groups.

This would promote using the DF in a positive manner and put more people back in the que at least until they all get voted up and go back to fixed groups.

Imo there should be a demotion system too though so we can report afk people, exploiters, etc etc. If it only goes up, people will get to the top, then start being #$#* again.