random Duty Finder groups - Square Enix attitude solution INC

[Mychael]

Someone earlier suggested a minimum time--I would say 3-10 minutes, based on the situation. 10 minutes is too long for a primal, but 3 minutes is easily surrendered in a full dungeon.

Also, monitoring the # of times a player votes to kick another is a good way to track those that abuse (i.e. regularly use) the vote. Those that are playing "lottery" with their fourth party member, for example, would probably kick 4 in an hour, vs. normal players that might kick 4 in a week. Having GMs monitor those unusual trends would be a good thing.


Feedback from the kicked player would be nearly-useless; who would say "Yeah, I uh... deserved that kick."?

However, making each member that votes to kick select a reason might be a good deterrent. If people choose different options for "Why are you kicking them," chances are it's not legit (i.e. someone is kicking for afk, someone else is kicking for being a generally bad player).

Asking players to summarize the event to votekick would be a good deterrent even if GMs didn't monitor--people would be afraid to kick for reasons like "they suck" or "his gear is too low," and might think a little bit more before kicking a player.

All-in-all, this wouldn't be an issue if we actually did content with players on our server.

[Mychael]

SW: TOR has/had an MVP vote for battlegrounds... My IA sniper got the majority of votes almost every time. Despite standing out above the rest, I hated this system because a single player doesn't make a team. If we could vote for multiple people so that we can exclude people that we think performed poorly, it would be a much better system.

This. I don't want a "MVP" function. This means healers and tanks will exclusively be most valuable. No offense, but DDs are a commodity and, while they can speed things up or slow them down, their actions don't radiate consequences like the healer and tank.

I want to thumbs up or thumbs down ALL players in my group.

If they're in my party, why can't I vote for them? If I didn't think they were a valuable player, why the heck would I have partied with them?

[Critux]

In this post I will attempt to highlight the problems with a vote kick system:

A vote kick system will be great. I'll make sure to always queue with 1-3 friends so I can never be kicked. If someone says something to annoy me, I'll purposefully wait until the last boss and then refuse to heal until they are kicked or leave in order to waste 40 minutes of their time and they will not get any Allagan Tomestones. Even if I use my voting limit, eventually the majority will comply so that they can get their Allagan Tomestones. Remember, I'll always be immune because I queue with 1-3 friends depending on the dungeon size. If someone wants to waste my time by being new, slow, undergeared, low in damage, hard to heal, pulling avoidable trash, dying, or watching the cutscenes then they are gone. If someone who can roll on my gear does not have the item already then I can vote kick them in anticipation of it dropping. I can't wait.

[Makeda]

Hello,

From a technical standpoint, it wouldn't be very difficult to have a vote to kick feature for the Duty Finder, and we are planning to implement this.

However, as there is the concern that it could be used maliciously to get rid of players that groups do not like, we are working hard to create a system that reduces the chances for problems to occur. Due to this, we are continuing to look into the feature, as well as whether we will implement this in patch 2.1.

Yep. I've almost never seen vote-to-kick used properly.
As a tank for years in WoW, it was not usually me - but I've very often seen a pack of bad attitude players boot out the one other person I thought was nice in the group... and when I go as DPS or Heals - I see tank use it all the time to go after the 'newbie' rather than the rude person.

vote-to-kick is mostly a griefer tool, if it lacks strong counter-incentives.

[Sekkerhund]

concern that it could be used maliciously to get rid of players that groups do not like, we are working hard to create a system that reduces the chances for problems to occur.

Its not a developer's responsibility to force players to play with each other and because they believe it is, these RGF tools have raised a new generation of players that don't know how to make friends and groups, or learn that there are consequences to how they treat each other.

Each new "malicious play countermeasure" just creates more problems than it solves, so just get back to basics:

Implement a 60-second "non-grouped kick" for instances and allow groups to disband and reform while in an instance, as long as they get it done in 60s. The group is able to fill group and finish the instance. This way nobody is faced with a penalty by having to voluntarily leave an instance, while the player who was disbanded (for whatever reason) learns a life lesson.

[Rabbio]

On the MVP system: I only saw cosmetic/fluff stuff listed. The players that go out of their way to get that stuff are generally the "laid back" players that are in it for enjoyment. They aren't the caustic "GOGOGO" crowd expecting perfect play in a level 20 instance. Those players care far more about being efficient than getting silly fluff items anyway, so nothing will change...

On the votekick: Thank you for trying your best to minimize risks before implementing this. I stopped healing in WoW after two bad tanks died, blamed me, followed by votekick that everyone in that game just auto-clicked Yes. I don't want to stop healing (and doing dungeons) in this game because of jerks abusing votekick.

[Sotek]

To think... All these problems and extra development time (particularly looking at Crystal Tower) could have been avoided if the developers didn't have such a bipolar stance on game content... They give us Linkshells and Free Companies so we can form groups, then tell us to use the Derpy Finder for all but the hardest of content, they intend to implement a board system so players can easily group up for content with others on their server, only to then make it so you lose out on some potential rewards by making a premade group...

What is funny is, if you make a premade group you can already kick people for being "trolls". People are less likely to be "trolls" because you're on the same server and they may actually get a bad reputation that way, not to mention you can form a good reputation yourself. You're much more likely to be able to organize how your group will handle drops, cutscenes and speedruns. You also have total control over the party set up. Pretty much everything people want from the Derpy Finder is already there, if you don't use the Derpy Finder... The only negative is the extra effort put into finding groups, but that is something the board system may well address, oh and while I'm on that... Imagine if that system has a little tag that goes "You've already cleared easy mode Titan, so you must just be doing it to help people on your server... Have some MVP!", that would be a much better way of rewarding nice and helpful people... Am I going to help newbies clear Ifrit/Titan/Garuda for their first time with the current MVP system? No. I have no guarantee I'll get anything from it using the Derpy Finder completely solo (if someone on my server shouts for the content and I see it, I may help though). I can do dungeon runs for EXP/gear and potentially MVP as well, so I'll be doing that.

[Sargent]

Sorry if it's been suggested but...

How about adding an option to kick a player that's been idle a certain amount of time? That would allow Duty Finder parties to remove people "leeching" without it being used to remove people they don't like.

[ChickensEvil]

There is no need for a timer restriction (except for maybe the whole, you must wait until 5 or 10 minutes have passed from the start to kick someone I am fine with that), there is no need for these worries about people kicking them during the last boss so they don't get loot. In other games that have had this system the rules were simple. You can't kick while in combat. You can't kick while loot is being distributed. Meaning, the only reason someone would kick you is before a boss pull for whatever reason, or after a boss pull and the loot is passed out... for whatever reason. There would be no griefing in this fashion.

The only risks that you face, is kicking people because they are under YOUR threashold of gear, kicking people for watching CS, or kicking people because you want to be a jerk... I would suggest that most likely two of these are very uncommon. Oh no, some random people who I will never see again (most likely) didn't like me as soon as I joined the instance... was there something wrong with me? No... ok then move on with your life. The ONLY one I see being an issue is the CS watchers, and they have ALREADY Mentioned in another post that they realize that there are two groups of people right now, and are working to see about implementing something that would make both groups happy... or at the very least "remove" the issue (we could very well see a "you-can't-skip-anything" option come down the pipe... which would technically fix the problem... it would piss tons of people off... but it would "fix" the problem)

So anyway, the "concerns" about vote-2-kick are largely either blown way off base, or are completely invalid (or will be rendered invalid soon enough). Considering there is a much, much larger issue at hand, and that is people who go AFK for WHATEVER reason... and it happens... a lot... Given the time-limit restrictions on the duties, you NEED something to clear out those who are going AFK (and mind you not everyone is a jerk on this... there are valid things that come up. causing people to go afk or DC)

[Mishakai]

I'm all for vote kicking. Not sure how to prevent abuse though. I'm sure at some level any form of vote kicking will get abused by people. I don't know, maybe implement a reason drop down list with 10-20 reasons to kick the person, and only kick them if 2/3 of the reasons match.