random Duty Finder groups - Square Enix attitude solution INC

[Seig345]

Last night I managed to squeak into Aurum Vale at a point where the timer would have run out before the maintenance was scheduled to start. I had selected In-Progress as White Mage, so I came in to a Tank and a Dragoon. Their initial healer and other dps had ragequit because they'd wanted to speed run, and the tank (inevitably) clipped a few monsters' aggro range while they were following the left wall to the first boss. So, the three of us had a few laughs at the ragequitters' expense, and decided to go ahead and take a stab at the first boss so we could at least get some tomes since a 4th didn't appear to be coming.

We managed to down the first boss (easiest one anyway) and a summoner popped in on our way to coincounter. We suffered a few deaths on him, but no wipes, I just kept swift casting + raise handy and yanked them back on their feet and we took him down. We wiped 2-3 times on our way to the last boss, typically apologizing to eachother. I jokingly said "What's wrong with us!? We should be blaming eachother, and instead we're fighting over the blame!" and the tank replied "That's because we're (as in all 4 of us) not a-holes."

So we get to the last boss, and we struggled. We wiped twice, down to enough time left for one more attempt, and managed to scrape a victory by the skin of our teeth with the limit breaker. A pug group that started with snarky ragequitters ending in such success with 2 replacements. I guarantee you all 4 of us would have voted eachother up at the end of that one. X3

[Ryios]

2. Someone relatively new enters the dungeon, and doesn't do so well. They aren't a bad player or have a poor attitude, they just aren't top notch. Doesn't get a vote so you don't have to queue with someone 'new/inexperienced'.

I disagree with this. Personally I don't really go around all the time catering to new people. Why? Because there will always be a new person. It's like working at a job where people constantly quit and you constantly retrain new help, I just don't do it. As such I think it would be ideal if new people got paired with new people. The system I am promoting here would do that overtime. The people that want to be speed runners and not slowed down for cutscenes you name it, would be running together. If they are not it's because they are not deemed worthy and have not been upvoted. Now I'm not saying I don't help new people at all, but I'd prefer to run dungeons with mostly experienced people and let the new people run with new people and figure it out on their own just like we did at game launch.

Secondly, as this system has no penalties atm... All you can do is move up. And dps won't be ignored. People will make it a point to vote for everyone that did ok or didn't cause a problem. As a tank I value a good dps just as well as a healer. DPS checks are in a lot of these encounters, as such DPS will get voted up.

And when it comes to farming philo and myth tomes, nothing matters in the group more than amazing dps. The better your dps is, the faster you clear the dungeon and faster clears = more philo myth in a smaller time frame.

And if you are running with your own group, thats the penalty you take. That's why I said you'd want to use DF to get DPS or a healer or something. As long as 1 person from the DF is in the group they can vote you up and you can vote them up. Or just use DF till you get voted up.

And obviously this setup wouldn't apply to Castrum, Preatorium, or Binding Coil.

[Felis]

For Tanks, talking Final Fantasy, knights are pretty popular so you would think there would be enough, maybe the responsibility for knights in FFXIV ARR is heavy.

It was just as I predicted, in any MMO’s there is shortage on tanks. We’re looking into add a bonus for those roles we are short on in patch 2.1.

Can you please explain some more regarding the bonus for those roles in shortage?

In the finders display it will display what roles are currently short, so if you que in with that role you’ll get exp bonus or gil bonus.

Sounds similar to blood donation. Like we’re short on blood type AB. So that’s going to show up on each DutyFinder category?

Yes it will. We are short on these people, it’s a feature we can do because we have the Armoury System.

So for EXP bonus it’s going to be like 1.1 times more?

No, I believe it will be somewhat better than 1.1 times. Also, we’re going to start random matching. Not sure if we’re going to separate the story primal battle and non-story primal battle from category but for categories are split into categories such as “Leveling Dungeon”, “End Dungeon”, “Guild Order” and if you press the “Random” button to que in, DutyFinder will automatically and randomly choose a dungeon. For those that que in with this random matching will also get a bonus. However this is once a day feature.

Once a day, what do you mean once?

The bonus you can obtain from doing it random.

I see, so you can play the random matching as much as you want in that one day, however the bonus will only apply to that first time only?

We are still looking into either making it once a day, or one bonus only. When we say bonus, it’s not experience points or gil, you will be able to obtain tokens needed to obtain gears. You will be able to obtain tokens from this random matching. Merit in doing this is that high level players will come in together with new players to fill in the roles that is short. Also we’re looking into a feature where you can submit a vote for MVP. When queuing in with random matching, players can submit a vote for another player as MVP. By collecting those MVP points you will also be able to trade with items. We are already listing up the rewards, but you can get mounts, or chocobo specific gears and such are being looked into.

Ohh, that’s nice, is that also coming in patch 2.1?

Yes we are planning to implement this in patch 2.1

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post1290186

[Zaiken]

I say NO because this will not work. We gonna have a Tank or Healer will tell everyone to Vote them up or they will refused to Tank or Heal. Like a Tank at the end of the Boss will tell everyone to vote him up or he will not Tank and leave, and you know people will just do it to get the Dungeon finish because they are already at last boss and don't want to reque to start over again.

Only way I see it would work is that once a Dungeon is clear a menu popup asking everyone to vote people up. And the Vote have to be anonymous too to make it turn it into some kind of drama. I also do not like this ideas because why should I be penalize for partying with my Friends? Meaning only Random people use DF get their mount and perk, and the rest of us don't?

[Felis]

Of course the vote should be after the run.
What logik would it be to vote at the start, not knowing how the others would play in this run?

And if this work:

In the finders display it will display what roles are currently short, so if you que in with that role you’ll get exp bonus or gil bonus.

then tanks and healers are not more kings of DF

[KaiKatzchen]

I really don't see this being an issue. There are still a billion reasons to play with your friends/FC, and nobody needs an incentive to be a team player within those communities. It just happens naturally, and will continue to happen.
If your friends/FC refuse to play with you anymore because they're just out for MVP points, chances are they will have a hard time getting those points at all, and won't be missed anyhow.

Exactly, no one needs an incentive to be a good and polite player, so why does SE feel it is a good idea to bribe rude and mean players into being good? I think it is very sad that this community is so bad, player wise, that this has even come about.

As to the second comment, I don't know if you were saying this to use it as an example or if you misread what i was saying. I never said anything about my LS/FC/Friends not wanting to run to me. I am very blessed with a very kind group of people that will help me, and will help anyone in our group with what they need. I have no fears of being ditched for this 'points'.

My point over all is, people should no be forced to play this game a specific way just so SE can bride bad/rude players into being nice to people. SE needs to just stand up and say 'we are not going to deal with this attitude and we will ban you and/or take away privileged of using DF if you continue acting in this way', and then follow through. I'd rather deal with RMT spam and B-listing them constantly then cater and give gifts to mean players to make them act nice. It's insulting to the players in this game that already try to help the community and help new players etc... especially since the nice players can't play with anyone then know at all in a DF if they want to get these 'points' as well.

[Jynxii]

Secondly, as this system has no penalties atm... All you can do is move up. And dps won't be ignored. People will make it a point to vote for everyone that did ok or didn't cause a problem. As a tank I value a good dps just as well as a healer. DPS checks are in a lot of these encounters, as such DPS will get voted up.
.

I hate to point this out, but not everyone is like you, and if they were, assuming you aren't the aforementioned jerk, a system like this wouldn't even be in place. Also, lets keep in mind the system is their to support good behaviour. Not voting for a newer, inexperienced player who is nothing but polite and grateful to any pieces of advice you give already goes against the intended purpose of the system. (Does this make you a jerk for not using it the way it is intended?). Continuing with your point, does this mean DPS with relic get more up votes because they make the run faster? Even if they are less friendly. It is in your best interest to get the geared player's priority to your run can go smoother/faster.

Let's ignore all the stuff that a system like this will potentially do to friends, LSs and FCs for now, and focus on individual players that are actually more likely to use the DF to form entire random groups. Now while you say you'll up vote DPS players, does this imply everyone will? As a healer my queues are shorter anyway, and as a tank yours would be shorter still, so what effect, or benefit would you get from up voting DPS? What about NOT up voting DPS?

You highlight some of your reasons, but try putting yourself in the shoes of a DPS player. You aren't a bad player or a bad person. You have to wait 60-90 minutes to get into a dungeon and are avidly trying to get your Darklight set so you can move into other content/be more efficient. You finally get into a dungeon, clear it relatively smoothly and then get presented with the option to up vote your fellow players. You don't hesitate to up vote the Tank/Healer because they deserve it right? Now you have to up vote the DPS, but if you do so that brings him closer to having 'queue priority', potentially putting him ahead of you, potentially increasing your queue time. If this vote would potentially add another 10 minutes to your queue time, would you still vote? Would you feel that justice occurred within the system if you weren't up voted because you didn't have a full set of Darklight gear already, despite avidly trying to do so?

I see where you are trying to go with the system, but there are too many different incentives for different players, and far too broad a variety of players to make any 'safe' bets of how they would react/use the system. Even by your own admission you state that you would use it against its intended purposes to benefit yourself:-

Personally I don't really go around all the time catering to new people....I'd prefer to run dungeons with mostly experienced people and let the new people run with new people and figure it out on their own just like we did at game launch... And when it comes to farming philo and myth tomes, nothing matters in the group more than amazing dps...

I'm not trying to make you look like a bad guy, and I'm sure you're not, but the system is to reward good behaviour and foster a more positive community, not separate the haves from the have nots.

[Hiruke]

This is stupid. I don't want to try to make people love me. I just want to get in there and do my best. And I want people who troll to get smacked around somehow, so's they don't troll no mo. Or are at least punished for it. I've had people come into a run and just afk the whole time, or be totally horrible and then after losing the fight (mostly because they themselves were horrible) then go afk while naked to force someone else to withdraw and eat the 15 minute lockout.

Maybe an American needs to be the person to think of the system to deal with trolls and random DF abuse? Is it a cultural thing where people just can't fathom others being total trolls to everyone for no reason? Even if trolls wants dem MVP points, what's to stop them from being cool enough to get upvoted in stuff, then go back to trolling all over the place?

We don't need up votes, or down votes. We also don't need a withdraw system that punishes only the first person who withdraws. We need to be able to report trolls and have them be punished with multiple day/week/month long lockouts from the DF, depending on how abusive they are. A kick option would also be rad, but could also be abused, and ain't going to help nobody who is trying to DF primals (lol why), since you can't replace them and you'll prolly requeue with them anyway if they're a healer or a tank. This needs some serious rethinking, not a brownie point system as if anyone cares about that. I mean, people will, but I doubt the trolls will magically stop trolling because they might get a mount if they are super sugary candy nice to everyone.

If you need a brownie point system, figure out some way to decide whether or not someone sucks at playing, and award them for doing stuff like NOT standing in the center of the arena for Geocrush, and NOT sucking down every Weight of the Land that pops.

Or let people do a "preferred/not preferred" player list so you never get matched up with people you mark as trolls ever again. Even if that makes me not join some random party full of mostly cool people, that's fine, because that troll is going to make them wipe anyway so I'll take my chances with someone new who isn't a troll.

Bolded the only solution that makes ANY sense.

[KaiKatzchen]

Or let people do a "preferred/not preferred" player list so you never get matched up with people you mark as trolls ever again.

Bolded the only solution that makes ANY sense.

We were just talking in mumble and I had brought up something like this! Make a cross server blacklist for instances. When someone is rude to a player etc they can blacklist them. Then when players go into the DF the system scans though the queued people and blocks the people it sees on the list from joining the group.

What will eventually happen is the players who are rude will end up waiting a long time to get into a DF because of the blocks on them and maybe that will teach people to be polite. Then they will have to look for LS/FC/Server help instead to get things done.

[Lucimon]

Well clearly the amount of ideas appearing shows that many people are interested in some kind of plan keeping the Duty Finder a friendly environment with little to no hassle from those not so interested in keeping the environment a good one.

I want to thank everyone for taking your time to express your thoughts / ideas and any other comments given. Keeping threads positive in this manor will attract attention. I'm sure eventually something will come up to stabilize behavior within the game we have to continue to express our thoughts, concerns, and ideas so to better assist Square Enix in developing new solutions!

Thank you All!