Just when I thought DF couldn't get any worse...

[Leiloni]

I run across douchebags once in every 15-20 DF groups I get in. Maybe I'm just overly lucky and all, but to me, this kinda people and incidents are the exception, not the trend. That being said, I don't know what you can expect SE to do. There's rude and disrespectful people online all the time. And as much as it sucks, being rude and inconsiderate is not a crime. How do you police it?

Although with this type of behaviour, maybe they can do a "you can't loot a chest while in combat" mechanic?

They can add in features that limit their ability to participate in such behavior and add in measures for the rest of us to self regulate these people. There were some good suggestions a page ago on what can be done.

[jcw005]

These people are definitely to blame, it's true. But the one who deserves the greater portion of the blame is S-E for condoning this type of behavior. As anyone who's tried to report people like this can attest, S-E's response is that people can play however they want and you don't get to judge. As long as that attitude continues, their behavior will as well.

[Fyrebrand]

I believe there's a need for a world-wide shitlist, and soon.

I understand the desire for it, but I just don't see that being helpful. Square Enix themselves would never in a million years support anything like that, so it would have to be some "trusted" unofficial, off-site sub-group. It would undoubtedly degenerate into a "he said, she said" witch-hunt where people just make up stories and rumours. There would be false accusations, photoshopped "screen shots" or "chat logs" submitted just to troll innocent people, and even the truly guilty ones who deserve to be there would deny any such things took place. In the end, all you'd have are thousands of strangers arguing over things that may or may not have happened.

cross server blacklist is needed to filter out idiots.

I was surprised to find out this wasn't possible. Until today, I assumed there was some method of doing it through the Lodestone, at least. Nope! :-(
I agree that a cross-server blacklist would be valuable, though it is still a band-aid solution and not a replacement for filing a report to a GM. Assuming it would prevent you from matching with that player again in DF, it's not like you would suddenly get priority in the dungeon queue over them. The victim is basically the one taking the hit, potentially delaying their own queue as more and more names get added to the list.

I see quite a few people (in this post and others) that say "They will be gone soon" and I'm wondering why people think that is? Is it to be expected that a lot of the more negative people will leave once the free time is over? Or is it something else?

There's no way to know what people will do. It kind of makes sense that some might leave after their free time is up, but money has never been an obstacle for people who want to be jerks. It sounds like all the trolls seem to be hovering around endgame content already, though. I'd wager it's more likely they will leave after the first month purely out of boredom. They're probably here because this is the new, shiny MMO. They'll have their fun, and then be off to the new GTA or Call of Duty.

I didn't believe the DF naysayers when they first predicted the introduction of DF would ruin the community. Well, it has.

You make it sound like they weren't going to be jerks and trolls, if not for Duty Finder. We all know that's not true. These people are going to be out there, with or without DF. Granted, the problem has been exacerbated because it forces us to interact with these idiots on a regular basis, and the devs seemingly just released Duty Finder "as is," without any sort of safeguards or countermeasures. In my opinion, it was a little irresponsible to set up this lawless, Wild West style frontier and not include even so much as a Vote to Kick option, a more robust player reporting system, or a cross-server blacklist of any kind.
As improvements get patched in, and the novelty of trolling dungeons just for the heck of it wears off, we will see less and less of this problem.

1) Do not allow chest opening until certain mobs are killed
2) Award end of dungeon loot (tomes) only to people that actually participate in all bosses (from the participants point of entry, in case they join mid-dungeon)
3) Boss chest loot only lottable by participants in the boss battle

1) Agreed. Why could someone open a chest while in combat, anyway? That seems wrong.
2&3) Agreed, though they have to make sure players can't get locked out of boss rooms if other party members charge ahead without them. I understand being locked in the room, but locked out? What is the point of that?

How is OP supposed to know which server that player originated from?

Don't need to, really. Include the time/date, and which dungeon it was, and I assume the GMs can easily tell who they were partied with.

[Makeda]

You had a limited experience in WoW, thus you find this the worst you've ever seen.

I've been in WoW since 2006. A healer for the first year, then a tank for the rest with healing as my 'alt option'.

I've seen MUCH MUCH MUCH worse than this. And usually 2 to 3 times a week when I'm active over there. And that's coming as a tank - where I have control over the dungeon and queues. I'm sure the DPS over there have even more horror stories than me.

This sadly, will only continue.

The game has an LFD / Duty Finder tool. I saw a video before buying where the devs said "We love the duty finder tool as it lets anyone play together, and our community are nicer people so it won't have issues" and I thought to myself... "you guys are thinking very wishfully there..."


Unless they bring in account-based accountability: blacklist by account, and a publicly viewable record of how many times someone has been blacklisted... plus and ability to 'not DF queue with anyone who has X more blacklistings than me'... The issue will not resolve.


What I would do as a developer:

1: Blacklist works by account across server.
2: To blacklist someone requires entering 50 to 150 characters of why, or it won't black list them. The entry will not accept names of people.
3: Lodestone shows all your blacklistings, and the reasons, but not who did it.
4: Lodestone shows a list of all blacklistings you have put on people, and what you put in why, but not who.
5: DF won't queue you with someone you blacklisted. Option, default on.
6: DF won't queue you with someone who has blacklisted you. NOT optional.
7: DF won't queue you with someone who has 20 more or 20 less blacklistings than you. Option, default on.
8: DF won't queue you with someone who had blacklisted 50 more people than you have blacklisted. Option, default on.
9: If you put a name into your 'why' for blacklisting (such as through special characters), people can report this, and if found to be the case, you'd get a 7-day account suspension followed by a 30-day block from using DF.

- Accountability, or DF will ruin the community.

.

[Stormrider]

Makeda is right. The whole dungeon finder allowed the trolls/jerks to come out of the woodwork. When you can only group on a server it only takes a few bad runs and a few threads to warn people about you. The community of MMO's is self policing for behavior. That person from the original post would probably never pull that trick because he would know he would never see another group after he had been shamed on multiple sites.

[Kurosawa]

The biggest trouble is that DDs are a dime a dozen, but healers and tanks, not so much. Because of this, people will queue as a healer or tank just to get a duty in shorter time so they can get what they want and split. Happened a couple of times with some folks. It's annoying and completely sours the vibe of the community. There's nothing wrong with gunning for a specific piece of gear or item, but at least see the quest through to the finish. You have to consider that there are others in there with you.

And also, for the speed-running, cutscene complainers, you SHOULD run with a preset group. Think about it: you want a reliable speed-run through the dungeon, which means you're going to want a setup that can best deliver that. Grouping with random people will likely not give you that. In that regard, DF is a bad option for a speed-run. Find a static team and smash CM or AK for your tomestones/loot. You get your speed-run, others get their immersion, everybody wins.

[Iskander]

We need a system to deter this mindless douchery right? Hold on while a borrow a bunch of things and make them awesome.

Ahem

Presenting the new FFXIV AR Indictment system (yes I borrowed Darks Souls indictment system since it gave me a great idea).

What is this Mr. Iskander?

In short, Its a system thatll deter douchery in instances through threat of notoriety and long queue times.

How it works:

Lets say you go into an instance and you come across a tank like the one the OP had. When he leaves, a message pops up for the other 3 players. It'll say "Indict (player)?" If you say yes, the player gets an indictment point on his character. For each indictment point (up to 4), the wait for next queue increases by 15 min. SO now that guy has to wait 30 min to DF again. If they have 4+, they get a 60 min cooldown for each time they get indicted. If one person clicks that yes button, you get an indictment point.

"But then they'll just afk..."

Yep, which is why there's a nice little function where if you select a party member, you can choose to start a vote to kick and indict that afker. But wait, there's more! it can only be done in random queues, and it has to be a majority vote (3/4 or 5/8). You want to go with a couple people or a full premade? That's Fine. But you can't start a vote on each other.

But that's not all! Those who are tagged with First Timer Syndrome in instances are immune from kick indictment. No worrying about being in trouble for watching your cutscenes. However, you only get one reprieve from this. Firsties are subject to leave indictment and if they are, they lose their kick indictment immunity.

But we haven't finished yet! Let's add a nice board in the main cities that allows players to see who's wracked up the most indictment points. The douchers from around the servers can have their names shown around the cities for players to know who's been the biggest griefer in the game.

We can have these points reset once per week.

SE wants to put in an MVP system.

Well how about having each MVP vote up knock off one indictment point. You don't want your name on the board? Start helping people.

[EmeraldSerenade]

SNIP

That sounds worse than what we already have

[Ruethryl]

I suspect the local server party finder/matcher that they're talking about for 2.1 or 2.2 will deal with this somewhat.. the desperate will use DF, the rest will use party matcher and good luck being a douche if you go that route.

[Katai]

Tried to run Ifrit hardmode this morning, but was met with a warrior troll that decided he just wanted to queue into group and scream "Leory Jenkins" as he aggros Ifrit and repeatidly wipes the group. Even after accepting the 15 min penalty, I kept getting matched up with this warrior in subsequent queues.

The whole experience left a sour taste in my mouth. Such a shame really.