Are static groups simply the now accepted reality for endgame progression?

[Alpheus]

Yoshida and team deliberately excluded Coil from the Duty Finder because they wanted end game to cater to 8 man setups and for those who roll deeper than that they have in store Crystal Tower which is 24 man raid content. Once Crystal Tower is implemented they also intend to update both Coil and Tower in a alternating fashion. If I recall correctly from Yoshida's Game Watch interview he basically lays out that as content gets harder and harder he wishes for players to realize that they'll need to form groups if they want to see any progress beyond the HM Primal Fights. He even says how this should become apparent to players by the time they reach Titan HM if not earlier, essentially that the higher up the content ladder you go the more the grouping training wheels come off and it's up to you to find or start a static-esque group.

I suppose the above is neither here nor there though as the OP is concerned about people who are inevitably cut from Coil runs, assuming you will roll with 24 people anyway to do Crystal Tower runs. Or catching up friends who are missing a specific turn win. In the latter case though I thought you entered a Turn based on your Party Leader's progress couldn't you simply make party lead the person in question that you want caught up? I'm nowhere near the point to do endgame at present so forgive me if my last point was addressed.

[Sebastianaru]

It's becoming clear that my FC/LS will have a short supply of healers for end game content (I don't mind I'm currently one of the only scholars). We're still probably 2-3 weeks out from starting Titan and progressing into Coil. It will be very difficult to decide who will be able to progress beyond Titan and who will have to sit out. They need to come up with a better system (personal lock outs?). I doubt the DPS/Tanks that sit out will be able to get through the content in a PUG or find another FC/LS willing to give them a spot.

I'm all for keeping these fights outside of the Duty Finder but they need to give LS/FC more flexability here. Not all LS/FC have 2 sets of healers and 2 sets of tanks to form multiple 8mans. We're not a mega-guild; we have around 12-15 active (dedicated) players.

[Kanzer]

It's becoming clear that my FC/LS will have a short supply of healers for end game content (I don't mind I'm currently one of the only scholars). We're still probably 2-3 weeks out from starting Titan and progressing into Coil. It will be very difficult to decide who will be able to progress beyond Titan and who will have to sit out. They need to come up with a better system (personal lock outs?). I doubt the DPS/Tanks that sit out will be able to get through the content in a PUG or find another FC/LS willing to give them a spot.

I'm all for keeping these fights outside of the Duty Finder but they need to give LS/FC more flexability here. Not all LS/FC have 2 sets of healers and 2 sets of tanks to form multiple 8mans. We're not a mega-guild; we have around 12-15 active (dedicated) players.

You're overlooking one very key feature of this game that would help your situation immensely..and that is the fact that you can level all classes on the same character. If you need a particular class, and aren't willing to recruit more, then some of you can level that needed class and have it on stand by. What you're asking is for SE to do this work for you, which defeats the purpose of making new friends and finding a strategy unique to your group to get through the end game content.

[Lucroarna]

Sometimes I feel like people disagree with things just so they feel smart by having an opinion.

You can have 100 people in your FC and make sure there's multiple groups doing the content. You turn a great method of endgame, which IS in WoW and every other modern MMO, into some world shattering problem. Some people just love to be miserable I guess.

[Mishakai]

Sounds like content that is meant to be cleared weekly by Free Companies. Don't see what the big deal is. Clear it once a week with your FC. If your FC is big enough, they can work on it nightly and replace people who can't make it that night with people who can.

I find it amazing how far people go out of their way to avoid properly socializing in an MMO.

[Deceptistar]

Sounds like content that is meant to be cleared weekly by Free Companies. Don't see what the big deal is. Clear it once a week with your FC. If your FC is big enough, they can work on it nightly and replace people who can't make it that night with people who can.

I find it amazing how far people go out of their way to avoid properly socializing in an MMO.

i dont think you understood what the OP said.

[KimimiAvesta]

I haven't made it to end game content yet, so please feel free to ignore my opinion, but...

I am ok with content that requires statics as long as that is not the only thing to do at the end game. I don't think every piece of content has to be open to every game play style. As long as they add stuff for FC's and soloists at the end game as well, let the statics have Coil.

I realize that since the game just released, there might be a limit to the amount of end game content available. So I will reserve judgement until a few expansion packs come out and we can see if they are attentive to the other MMO game play styles.

I agree - if Coil's the end game content for people who want statics then that's fine, no issues with that. But if static's is all there's going to be then we've got a problem on our hands!

What's odd to me is that 95% of the game is about solo or DF play... it's like they say "You know all that stuff we taught you to expect? Those things we encouraged you to do? FORGET THEM ALL!" XD Err... basically, Coil sounds like a complete change in attitude towards the fundamentals of the game compared to how you play the story, FATEs, DF groups, etc. This is rather worrying for someone like myself, because the pre-Coil content by and large suits the free time I have available very well, but "no static=no progress" doesn't at all :S

I really hope each expansion "resets" what's required of players, in the sense that people can jump into pretty much any story they wish and progress post-credits onto hard/extreme/static-style content, rather than adding end game onto the end game onto the Relic onto... etc, etc.

[Murugan]

Sometimes I feel like people disagree with things just so they feel smart by having an opinion.

You can have 100 people in your FC and make sure there's multiple groups doing the content. You turn a great method of endgame, which IS in WoW and every other modern MMO, into some world shattering problem. Some people just love to be miserable I guess.

Wee 100 faceless people in an FC to draw your static groups from. What a "community".

It used to be different, that's great for you guys who only had WoW as a reference point, but some of us remember when endgame communities actually were full of friends you played with week in and week out and progressing together many people (enough that you still know everyone unlike modern guilds, but not a single static group either). They were not just pools of random people. But you are right that is the type of FC this kind of content promotes.

[Murugan]

People really don't get what OP's issue is.

It's not "The content is too hard". Neither "I can't DF it", nor "I want to put anyone in my PT and do it." His issue is that, right now, you can't do anything of the following:

"I want to practice / run specifically turn 1. No need for loot, exp, mytho, anything!"

You can't do this unless you purposedly wipe whenever you might win.


"One of my static members can't login today. I want to get a replacement without locking him out of earlier turns."

You can't. Either you don't run it, or you find someone who doesn't mind being locked out of earlier turns.

"It's Saturday. I want to do a fun FC wide event where we just gather people around to do Coil."

Well, you sort of can. Just hope enjoy doing turn 5 (and locking people out of earlier turns) with people that are still struggling to do T2, for example, with no chance to actually to do the proper turn for them and help them with anything. Have fun!


"I can't play at the same times every day, so it will be very hard to find 7 other people who can always play at the same time as me and form a static."

Enjoy never doing any decent progress on Coil ever, regardless of your skill / FC availability.

No one is saying static parties are a bad thing. It isn't. But Coil specifically forces you to static it and punishes you and whoever you want to play with if you ever try to bring someone not on your static for any reason at all.


Personally, I believe that just changing the party turn to the PT leader and locking people who beat a turn to get loot from it would help a lot, without it affecting the difficulty of it at all.

Exactly, as far as I'm concerned they should make it far more difficult and time consuming, just ease up on some of the restrictions for who we can play with.

I want to do events with my FC where I can freely choose who I want to play with (even if you DID limit my loot somehow), not be forced into a static because the design of this content pushes it on you.

Also people keep bringing up statics in FFXI, I'm sorry but that was far from the case most HNM weren't even player capped. You were rarely forced into single group statics for endgame progression, that is simply a problem for communities that want to change who they play with within that community from day to day.

[Lucroarna]

Wee 100 faceless people in an FC to draw your static groups from. What a "community".

I've run multiple guilds that did this, and we all knew eachother quite well.

Just because you're unable to communicate with people in an organized fashion doesn't mean the rest of the world can't handle it.

It's called a progression LS/Guild/FC, and many, many people can do it.

They just don't spend time whining on the forums about how hard the entertainment, err, I mean GAME is. They're in the game, winning fights.

Your complaint has no basis other than the fact that you yourself are not a leader, or a good team-player.