Are static groups simply the now accepted reality for endgame progression?

[sharazisspecial]

Coil is impossible with pug. The level of coordination makes it not possible.

The content is beyond Duty Finder where it's luck of a draw if you get competent teammates.

Coil 1 and coil 2 are definately puggable, but they do require bards who(for silence) They are honestly more forgiving then titan hm in non af gear. As long as you have silencers, decent gear and possibly voice chat for ADS.

[Ralemont]

I always ran endgame with the same ~12-18 people in FFXI, after the initial years of HNM stupidity. Of course, you could do super large linkshells if you wished but there was little point to it, especially during the pinnacle Abyssea years. Nothing in Dynamis besides Lord required more than 18 competent people, either.

So I guess I'm not sure what old-school MMOs we are talking about, but running the same content with the same people is how I've rolled for the last 10 years.

[oda]

While this is true, clicks are always a thing. What isnt helping is that the endgame supports this, over allowing the players to form a community to help each other.

... over allowing the players to form a community to help each other?! This thread does not compute. Everything that the OP and others seem to be calling out as problematic seem like overwhelming positives to me.

[Ahlen]

They have been for like 9 years, where have you been?

[Bluejay]

I haven't made it to end game content yet, so please feel free to ignore my opinion, but...

I am ok with content that requires statics as long as that is not the only thing to do at the end game. I don't think every piece of content has to be open to every game play style. As long as they add stuff for FC's and soloists at the end game as well, let the statics have Coil.

I realize that since the game just released, there might be a limit to the amount of end game content available. So I will reserve judgement until a few expansion packs come out and we can see if they are attentive to the other MMO game play styles.

[Ariyn]

The entire reason this is even a discussion is because Crystal Tower didn't make it into launch. If it had none of this would be an issue.

Yea I want to be able to rotate FC members in and out and I do. Coil is no different then ANY other raid in any game. They have lockouts just like every other game. Yet in every other game people are rotate around to get into the fights see the content and get chances on gear. I don't really see your points. You want what, no lockouts? So you can run it over and over and farm you and everyone elses gear? If they did that people would be Best in Slot geared in a week.

[CatholicFan]

I miss the endgame style of XI. Big LS's where people took turns, and you ran content as often as you could farm the pop-items. Frankly, though, the only way this was a viable system was because the drop rates were abysmally low. It took a couple months of farming Sky to get even close to a proper gear-set, even with showing up to all the raids.

The only other MMO I've played is SWTOR, and it sucked having to maintain a static for the 8-mans, and near impossible for the 16's. Maybe we just had bad luck, or maybe it was the SWTOR community, but I don't think there was a single week that we started on time because someone was always late, missing, or there weren't sufficiently geared PUGs available. It also divided the guild between the "good" players and the "other" group. It was occasionally... awkward :/.

[Akk]

This is the collective experience of a static party: |--------|
And this is for an inclusive and organized FC: |-----------------------------------------------------------------|

If you had access to both of those methods, which would you rather work on progressing in end-game content with? Content like this that penalizes people for not doing it as part of a static party seems to only be good for people who can't find/make an inclusive and organized FC, while spurning those who put in the effort to maintain one.

If the only purpose of the over-bearing lock-outs is to limit an individual's equipment progression, then why not just limit that person's loot rights?


I just think that lock-outs for single-party content, especially regressive lock-outs if you skip turns, is silly.

[Kanzer]

You really think easing restrictions would result in what you're wanting? It wouldn't, instead people would just run their same static group over and over and over and have all the best gear within a few days and have all content cleared.

The reason these restrictions exist is to keep this from happening.

We currently have 2 groups progressing in coil within our FC, and are in the works of making a third. If some people absolutely need a particular group of people to get them through the content then maybe Binding Coil isn't the place for them? Isn't it more satisfying to go in with a group of new people and doing it yourself? For me personally I would think so.

The system is fine how it is.

[AdvancedWind]

People really don't get what OP's issue is.

It's not "The content is too hard". Neither "I can't DF it", nor "I want to put anyone in my PT and do it." His issue is that, right now, you can't do anything of the following:


"I want to practice / run specifically turn 1. No need for loot, exp, mytho, anything!"

You can't do this unless you purposedly wipe whenever you might win.


"One of my static members can't login today. I want to get a replacement without locking him out of earlier turns."

You can't. Either you don't run it, or you find someone who doesn't mind being locked out of earlier turns.

"It's Saturday. I want to do a fun FC wide event where we just gather people around to do Coil."

Well, you sort of can. Just hope enjoy doing turn 5 (and locking people out of earlier turns) with people that are still struggling to do T2, for example, with no chance to actually to do the proper turn for them and help them with anything. Have fun!


"I can't play at the same times every day, so it will be very hard to find 7 other people who can always play at the same time as me and form a static."

Enjoy never doing any decent progress on Coil ever, regardless of your skill / FC availability.

No one is saying static parties are a bad thing. It isn't. But Coil specifically forces you to static it and punishes you and whoever you want to play with if you ever try to bring someone not on your static for any reason at all.


Personally, I believe that just changing the party turn to the PT leader and locking people who beat a turn to get loot from it would help a lot, without it affecting the difficulty of it at all.