Are static groups simply the now accepted reality for endgame progression?

[Murugan]

I just want to know if everyone in this game's community is fine with Labyrinth of Bahamut type content. Because from what I see people seem accepting of it, and having not played World of Warcraft and other recent titles (my last endgame experience other than 1.0 being Vanguard) I wonder if I'm just living in the past.


So if you are wondering what I'm talking about:

Coil of Bahamut has progress saved per week (resetting every Monday). This means that while you can join a group that is further progressed than you, you can never go backwards to help others farm that week.

Because of this I see most people doing LoB in static groups. I mean it really seems to push static groups on you by design (even the whole random loot thing discourages you from even allowing new players to try out Turn 1 etc.). I think five years ago you would have had most of the endgame community up in arms about this, but there is no outcry today. Have people just become accepting of a small static group oriented approach to MMO endgames?



I made a post in beta feedback worried about this and asking them to save progress and limit loot in a different way that was less restrictive to communities but it didn't get much support and I think this is probably likely to not either. Which will affirm my suspicion that maybe I'm just living in the past here.

[LeviathanElite]

What exactly is a static group?

[Slambo]

The game would be pretty funny if every PUG could down BCoB turns. I personally am glad to see the game shift from DF to tight knit groups of familiar players towards the very end.

[Murugan]

What exactly is a static group?

A static group is organizing with 7 other people to do content exclusively together on a routine basis.

This is as opposed to the typical oldschool endgame organization of joining an endgame community wherein you would be swapped into a roster larger than the current player cap on content (to allow for absences and different class setups). Guilds or Linkshells (in the case of XI) would gear eachother up, doing farming runs and prioritizing spots based on group need, who needed that particular drop etc.

This was made possible by large group sizes, and much less restrictions placed on farming.

Even in 1.0 with all its flaws it was more possible than here in ARR. I could have weekly events and play with everyone in my FC in one night helping everyone progress at the same speed, and farm needed gear. Here it seems to me like if you aren't in a static you are just plain doing it wrong.

The game would be pretty funny if every PUG could down BCoB turns. I personally am glad to see the game shift from DF to tight knit groups of familiar players towards the very end.

Communities can be tight knit. In fact if we weren't tight knight I wouldn't be flumuxed about not being able to play with them all. Most endgame communities I see in this game are bloated monstrosities with such variations in player skill, and seemingly very little commitment by player or community. The opposite of promoting close knit endgame experience, it's all encouraging of the "me me me" personal progression whoring.

Let me tell you something about being in an close knit community, that is when the whole LS run entire raids for one person's item and when they get it you feel just as good about it as when you got your item. Close knit used to be synonymous with endgame communities, but with static based progression I don't see that being the case anymore. Maybe you care about your little static (for now, while they are useful to you), but even if you did care about the rest of your FC the game restricts you in the ways you can play with them.

I'm not asking for anything to be made easier (where did I comment on difficulty at all) just maybe a little less restrictive for endgame communities who maybe don't want to splinter into a bunch of separate little tiny static groups.

My fault I guess for having more friends in an MMORPG than 2 tanks, 2 healers, and 4 DD that I want to play with exclusively for the rest of my endgame experience here...

I was originally promised 24 person raiding at launch, and now the only real endgame is kind of a slap in the face to how I choose to play MMORPG's because of the many limitations placed on who I choose to play with (not just group size, but itemization, phasing and lockouts as well). Maybe I'm living in the past, I just wanted to know if anyone else felt the same way because a lot of people in my FC are shocked about this as well. Are we just "getting too old for this shit?"

[Pathetic]

I personally like to group with random pple this way you get the good and the bad so i hate everything gotta to do with static

[NoctisCaelus]

You can appreciate both static and non static groups in FFXIV. Although it's a bit different with Bahamut's Coil. If you want to help someone, you have to make a sacrifice I suppose.

[Slambo]

So what you're saying is - "everything needs to be faceroll easy so i can do it with whoever/whenever" my reply - "no thanks"

[Murugan]

You can appreciate both static and non static groups in FFXIV. Although it's a bit different with Bahamut's Coil. If you want to help someone, you have to make a sacrifice I suppose.

The whole point of this thread is LoB.

Yeah you have to make a "sacrifice". But even if you "make a sacrifice I suppose" you are still limited to only helping one 8 person group per turn. Then all 8 of those people are locked out, and everyone else is screwed. Or you can let them take your place in later progression that you worked that week to unlock.

The current endgame (LoB) game is anti-community, and vehemently pro-static. Which is the antithesis of the whole concept of "accessible but challenging" Yoshida promoted when selling the idea for this game's endgame. It is instead "Easy->slightly more difficult->static exclusive with extremely restrictive progression". There is not a thing accessible about it.

So what you're saying is - "everything needs to be faceroll easy so i can do it with whoever/whenever" my reply - "no thanks"

No I just want it do it with my friends outside of the 7 I am forced to play with by the restrictions. They are all equally capable players.

Make content more difficult, so THAT is the barrier to completing it. Not arbitrary restrictions like are currently in place for LoB progression.

On a side note seriously? What warrants that response? Did you even read my post or are you just trolling for opportunities to stick your nose in the air while feeling obnoxiously smug about your myriad accomplishments in a video game. Sorry buddy it's not really relevant here, I've been playing "hardcore" MMORPG endgames for over ten years I'm not that easily impressed by random acts of rudeness.

[Deceptistar]

The game would be pretty funny if every PUG could down BCoB turns. I personally am glad to see the game shift from DF to tight knit groups of familiar players towards the very end.

No, basically what hes saying is the exact opposite. Endgame groups are already a tightknit community. A dungeon like this makes it so that 8 pple are forced to play only with each other to maximize drop rates and a fair progression without feeling you got cheated out of a "turn" per week. And only 1 whole circle of turns per week. These sort of dungeons are best suited for the casual PUG and the casual progressive. Those that have the odd number of pple in an already set endgame FC/LS, youll be fxxxd over unless you PUG it with fill in's. (and the whole meaning of joining endgame LS/FC is to filter pple) Keeping it fair so that your endgame FC/LS gets a fair chance at success becomes harder if you cant swap pple out. Its the same for any other MMO's out there.

[Jynx]

It is a tad odd they went with the whole "Progression flag" system I guess it's more of a "Challenge to beat the whole thing before your flag resets" but they should at least let players play in the prior dungeons to allow for endgame communities to grow instead of being secluded.

I'm all for making sure stuff like Binding Coil and Crystal tower stay the hell away from duty finder, but I would also like to see them ease up on the restrictions for a server community to be able to grow. Then again from the sounds of it Crystal Tower sounds like it will be the place to go for endgame shells to participate outside of their 8man groups, and help eachother gear up for the Binding Coil runs, and this also helps prevent certain shell members from being run raged because they are the only guy who wants to be a tank, healer, whatever because he plays with his group and that's all he needs to do, not run 80 instances of Turn 1 of coil to catch all the DD's up.

In a way it promotes diversity in endgame communities and not wedging the small tank/healer community in a high demand situation where they may not be comfortable. Hell I know I enjoyed playing Corsair in FFXI but I sometimes didn't feel like showing up to everyones damn run to restore their 2hours, similar situation with BlackMage.